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S.O.S. for low budget home recording

S

SuperAfroBeat

Sep 30, 2010
46
1
#1
Hi everyone, please help me solve this mystery. I have a bass guitar and I want to record on top of a track. I am a very poor and don't know about gadget so well. Until now I record on a voice recorder o cassette player (please don't laugh), and I play that over again and record it again with me playing bass on it. Of course that is very archaic and horrible sound with interference. I am posting this question to see if someone has found the cheapest possible way to record at home, a bass playing along to a track. How can I do it please? I want to track my progress and I think I am wasting already years of not being able to do this because no one can explain how to do it. I know people buy a mixing machine, but I'm really too poor. I have no media program on the PC, I don't know about it either. I am a girl and feel lost in this, asking now around for many years, and frustrated about this. :rollno: How can I do it the best way possible and the cheapest way? it doesn't need to be super good quality, it's just for myself, but I want to be able to listen to it afterwards and not just interference. I am sure there's people on this site who know about this. Please go back to the time when you hadn't bought your mixing gadget yet, and share how you did it before. How did you do it in the 80's for example? :bassist::help:
And infinite thanks in advance, Su
 
#2
Thankfully it's a lot cheaper now than in the 80's! Loads of dirt cheap options.

The cheapest is probably to plug your bass directly into the back of the computer and use a (free!!) program like reaper. Just download it, install it and get learning. They suggest you pay £40 if you like reaper and use it a lot which is how the company keeps running, so worth considering when you have the spare cash, but you can use it indefinitely.

then import an mp3 or cd track into reaper on one track, make another track for your bass and record. You may need a £2 big to little jack converter to get into the back of the computer, and it may be a little 'delayed' timing wise. We can talk you through fixing this, but another option is to buy a cheap bass-to-usb cable. These are £20, and cone with all the instructions you need.

You may run into a few problems, it takes a few pointers to be able to set up a simple little recording system but nothing that can't be explained!

Good luck!
 
#3
Hi Charling, It's so kind of you to pass on this info, thanks so much. And what about the tiny mixers they sell in the shops called mixer or interface, is that not needed if I do it with the usb cable? sounds like magic!
:hyper:
 
#4
No probs, happy to help!

Well mixer and interface are two different things. An interface is a box to plug into your computer which allows you to record, wheras a Mixer combines sounds and sends them out to a computer interface or similar. You can't record with a mixer alone but you can record with just an interface.

Worth noting though, that many little mixers these days have a usb output on them, so you can record whatevers goingthrough the mixer. This is pretty useful but most just record whatevers going on as a stereo wave file. If you recored your bass along to a track for example you would not be able to change it or adjust the volume of your bass AFTER the recording.

you COULD just record the Ipod/CD first on its own, then record your bass over the top in a seperate track but that would be the same as just buying a usb to guitar cable or simple interface and you wouldn't really be using the mixer itself then, just the bit that sends the audio to the computer.

So I'd go for a cheap interface, the USB to guitar cable could be considered a very simple interface but you can buy many others that do the same job. Like an Maudio fast track. The SUB to guitar cable I talk about is the alesis guitarlink, behringer also make something similar with the same name.

Audacity, as far as I know, just allows you to record one track, so fine if you use a little mixer and play your bass live but not many options to change it after you have done this. Reaper is a proper recording program, and although it might look a little confusing at first its really pretty easy and you will get used to building up and layering tracks and all the rest allowing you to do loads more in the future once you are used to the basics. Audacity is great though, don't get me wrong :)

Don't worry about space, both audacity and reaper are pretty tiny, we're talking smaller than a single recording of a song you will make! Also, audio programs are very easy on the computer by default, but you tax the computer by choosing to add loads of effects and multiple tracks etc so as long as you keep it simple (which sounds like you will be to start with) it should be no bother for basic recording!
 
#5
Thanks so much, there seems to be some hope for my situation :smug:
And what about the sound card? sorry to ask more. I don't think I have any sound card, just what windows comes with. If I go to Control Pannel, sounds and audio devices, in the Volume tab I see ' Creative SB Live series', in the Audio tab the same, and Modem#1Line record, and the webcam mic. I'm not sure if like this it will work with the USB cable from the bass and the Reaper program. And many thanks again in advance. Sue :bassist:
 
#6
Don't worry, an audio interface or gtr>usb cable IS a soundcard of sorts! Something like a Fast-track replaces the soundcard entirely (its really just a box with a soundcard in it that plugs into your computer!). If using an interface you plug the computer speakers into the outputs of the interface.

If using the guitar link cable you still use the factory soundcard and the USB cable input takes over the soundcards mic input as far as I can see. Its plug and play anyway so setup will be super simple! Just plug it in, go to the control panel as you have and select the new device!
 
#8
Hi, I bought a USB to bass cable and still haven't manged to install it. Unfortunately the one with no installation CD was 40 euros and I thought that was way to crazy expensive, so I bought the one that brings the CD to install with a program (Guitar Rig 4 LE). Unluckily for me I haven't been able to hear the bass, I hear it very far away and then fades away completely, then comes back after a while : (
And the sound of the pc seems to have got de-configured, I can't hear youtube anymore until I close Reaper. I can hear iTunes files though, even opening them on Reaper.
I did the installation of Reaper from internet. and the installation of the cable's program: Guitar Rig 4 LE. Everything seemed to be fine. But I'm missing a setting so I can hear the bass. I try to record and it shows the waves. Does anyone know about the initial settings for sound? did any one have this problem at the start using Reaper and Guitar Rig 4? to hear the recording do I have to pass it to Guitar Rig? or should I be able to hear it in Reaper? how can I hear my bass? I hope someone can give me tips please. You know how it feels to want to play and it's not working. :help: :crying:
 
#11
SuperAfroBeat said:
Hi, I bought a USB to bass cable and still haven't manged to install it. Unfortunately the one with no installation CD was 40 euros and I thought that was way to crazy expensive, so I bought .....
Click to expand...

Ok, the first aim is to get it just going into reaper. Guitar rig CAN work on its own but its probably best to start of getting reaper to work then working guitar rig into the equation. Guitar rig is whats known as a 'plug in', it runs within a host program like reaper. You get your bass working on a channel in reaper then add guitar rig on the channel as an effect plug in.

Ok, so you need to make sure that the sound device you are using is set to the little driver that came with the USB cable. You may have to set it to this under 'control panel'>'sounds' then choose it under audio device. There should be a new thats appeared since buying the cable, that'll be the one to use and the name should be given in the manual. It'll probably be called something like 'USB audio device' maybe with the manafacturer name as well. If all else fails just flick through them until reaper works!

You may be able to do it directly from reaper. Under preferences go to 'device'. Where it says audio device set this to your USB cables driver. In some cases you don't need to fiddle around in the sounds control panel, you may just be able to do it from reaper.

Once you have chosen the correct driver make a new track, set it to 'record enable', the red record button that is, and you should get sound coming in.

Once that works, let us know any other problems.

Its fairly normal for a DAW like reaper to stop playback of things like youtube. It normally doesn't on a mac because of the way core audio works but I remember it being a thing with cubase on the PC. In cubase you tick a box that says 'release audio driver in background'. That means when the program is in the background it lets other programs use the audio system. If this is annoying once you have the basics working I'm sure there is a solution that someone used to working with reaper on a PC knows of!

First steps, get basic audio coming into reaper :) you have playabck of mp3's you say, so thats cool, shows reaper's output is working!
 
#12
Hi Charling,

Thanks for coming to the rescue! To save you time, maybe just go to the last paragraph, the rest is background to let you know what I've set up.

What I did yesterday following a tutorial from youtube was to go in Reaper to options/preferences/pug-ins/VST plug-in settings/VST plug-in path, and browsed till I found this:
C:\Program Files\Native Instruments\Guitar Rig 4
which today I changed to this
C:\Program Files\Native Instruments\Guitar Rig 4\VSTPlugins 32 bit

In control panel from the system I found the USB device which should be the one because it's the only that wasn't there before.

Back in Reaper, in Options/Preferences/Device/audio devices settings/Audio system, I tried all of the list and none work. There is one that is called ASIO4ALL, which I think is a program that came with the installation of Reaper or of Guitar Rig 4 LE, I read the ASIO instruction manual that was downloaded, and it doesn't mention Guitar Rig or Reaper. And the bad news is that when I select it on Reaper audio devices section, then I get a pop up window saying that it
The Guitar Rig program saved a few folders in my programs, Guitar rig 4, which has another folder inside called VST plug ins 32 bits, which seems what Reaper is asking for in the preference/plugins (I guess because it's all about 'plug-ins). The other folder is called Gitar Rig session IO driver, and this one has these folders inside: Inf, Helper, Documentation, .svn
Is this the driver you mentioned?

I don't know if a driver and a plug in is the same.

I also went to Reaper / device audio system then chose audios system ASIO (the rest on the list I had tried and didn't work), then a new line opens and I can choose either ASIO4ALL v2, or Guitar Rig Session IO

Then it says 'enable input' and that box is checked. Beneath that it says ASIO configuration (still on the preferences of Reaper, then another window opens called ASIO4ALL v2.0 feedback, and reads WDM Device List and 3 options, Creative SB Live Series WDM (which was already selected, then USB camera, then USB PnP Sound Device, which I remember from today seeing it in the system's Control Panel /sounds and audio devices.

Now the USB PnP sound Device also set in Reaper.

After this, I just managed to record the bass and hear it back, but I don't hear it when I'm recording. The window ASIO4ALL v2.0 feedback, stays open and I have to chose the USB PnP device to record, then back to Creative SB Life to hear it. How can I hear the bass while I'm recording it? I hope I'm almost there.

And thanks x 1000000000 again for guiding me! :hyper: I can't wait to get it set and begin tracking my playing.
Sue
 
#14
Hi, thanks for replying. I have 'Record monitoring ON', but no sound while recording.
It still records the bass. On the extra window from the audio device settings that shows the name ASIO4ALL I'm choosing the USB PnP sound device for while I record. And switch from USB PnP sound device to Creative SB Live series to hear the recorded bass. I checked the volume too. I suspect it's another mutting setting or volume level, there are so many settings. What is FX for example? effects?
how do you call the out put of the input? because it's the bass going in the PC, and it's its sound, the output of that input :rolleyes:
for example, why do the db's show in negative while still giving sound? when I record I put the volume all the way up so it's in positive mark in case that is the problem.
:crying:
 
#15
OK!

Got it, I was thinking this may happen but I was sure the USB gtr cable would have accounted for it when designed.

Basically, it makes sense that you need to set the in/out device to the one connected to the gtr to record, and set it to the in/out device connected to the speakers to playback! I had assumed the cables driver would have taken care of this but evidently not.

What you need to do is go to Reaper's device panel in preferences. Tick the box that says 'allow use of different input and output devices', Don't worry that it says not reccommended, they are just covering there backs as its not a fully supported feature. Basically if you ran a pro studio or were recording very important tracks you wouldn't use it but for home use it'll be fine.

Now you have a choice of selecting seperate in and out devices, set the input to PnP (plug and play) audio and the output to your creative soundblaster card. That should get it going.

Next step, we'll see if theres any latency!

Don't worry this may all feel very new and cryptic but you are getting an understanding of the fundamental setup of a DAW, you'll be able to use this info to set up any other system you get in the future, it all works on the same idea!

Yup FX stands for effects, we'll get to that once you have sound sorted!
 
#16
This is starting to seem like mission impossible. But I'm so lucky you are helping me, makes me feel less frustrated with the cable.
Somehow I made it sound today, but with lots of latency. Not sure if I’m using the right combination, there are so many options in the system, then input and output, it changes from one system to the other. I don’t know where to start. I will tell you about the ones that seem to do something and what they do.
Audio system: Direct Sound, with Input: USB PnP Sound Device, and Output: CreativeSB Live Series
16 bit
Sample Rate 44100 and Buffers 8 x 1024 samples
Those figures are in boxes where I can type something else if you tell me.
Latency: 185 ms
With the above settings I can hear the monitor of the bass, the track with a song also, and I can even play back without having to change anything. The problem is the latency, not possible to play like that. Do you know if that is the price to pay for wanting to go so cheap (buying only the cable instead of an interface)? The right tempo, beat is precisely what I need to practice.
Then the next setting:
Audio sys: ASIO4ALL v2
I have to choose and change from the extra window the ASIO config and change from USB to Creative SB live series, and still on the system settings sometimes it only shows the USB device for both Input and Output, no other option. Then some other times when I go to that window it says output not connected, or shows Creative live series in both input and output and no other option, or input USB and then Output says not connected. It’s a bit crazy. With this settings o combinations I can’t hear the sound of the bass on the monitor before or while recording, and the other track with a song doesn’t sound either.The volume shows that it picks up the input frequency with less latency than the previous setting. I can see the wave of the bass getting recorded and I can play back. But no sound while recording is no good :(

I’m so sorry I keep asking. I am about to go back to the shop to tell them it doesn’t work. I mentioned that the guitar Rig 4 LE installation also installed ASIO4ALL, well, the driver of ASIO4 ALL doens’t work, and this might be the problem, if I choose Audio sys ASIO , where it says ASIO driver, it lets me choose between ASIO4ALL v2, and the Guitar Rig Session I/O, which is the same name of the driver that I have to choose in the REAPER Preferences Plug –ins VST to even get this far. I wonder if that is the driver, then why doesn’t it let me choose it in the REAPER preferences Audios device settings where it says ASIO Driver: ( and lets me chose between ASIO4ALL v2, and the Guitar Rig Sesion I/O, ) if I choose Guitar Rig Session I/O then it shows the input and output empty, a drop-down box like a drop down menu but empty, white. And when I click on configuration for ASIO I get a Reaper Error message saying: there was an error while opening your audio hardware. Error initializing ASIO driver.

I wonder if you will still try to help me. It's great how you've tried to guide me till now, I just wonder if it's getting too complex. It's great that you have taught me all these things in detail, people I know who know about this have no patience at all to talk to newbies like me.
Please tell me I'm almost there and that the latency thing can be solved.
Tnks soooo much. Sue
 
#17
Yeah thats cool, don't panic, thats why I mentioned latency as the next step earlier, its expected that you have to sort it out for a super simple device like this! Its the same with ANY recording device no matter what you spend, though bigger systems normally have fully dedicated drivers rather than generic plug and play ones so they often have a suitably low latency by default.

Go back to the first setting, the one that works but with latency. See if you can change the buffer size down to 32 or maybe 64. There are lots of buffers because it is going through 2 soundcards I would assume. Go too low and the audio will crackle and pop as the computer struggles, just go as low as you can get it. Hopefully you will be able to get it useable before the computer starts to struggle!
 
#18
Hi, and many thanks again.

It works!!! : ) :hyper: although the timing seems a bit weird. :bassist:

Here's how it was: Buffers: 8 x 1024 samples.
I just changed the 1024 to 64? and the buffers I left in 8. Then the track with the song was slowed down so I tried going up till I got to 200 and the track with the song sounds more normal. It shows now in the preferences that the latency is 36ms and it's 8 x 200. I recorded the bass playing along and it seems a bit weird, buy again, maybe that's just me, because I live in a dorm and it's 2:30am i was playing a bit strange too. At least it's getting better : ) I will try tomorrow again, probably I can go lower than 200 and see what happens.

Do I leave the 8 of the buffer like that? or change it?
There are two boxes where the numbers are and I can type in first on is the buffers and then the second box and then it says samples.

thanks so much for your help :smug:
 
#19
Yeah play around with it and see how low you can get both the size and amount of the buffers down. At 44.1K there are 44 ish samples per millisecond, as a reference point. So if you could get the buffer size down to 44 samples without clicking that would end up with 8 x 1ms buffers, ie overall latency roughly 8ms.

You may not be able to change the amount of buffers but give it a try! This is the latency setting, you generally have it low for recording and put it up higher for mixing when you have lots of effects going on etc! Though these days most computers are powerful enough to just leave it low unless you run out of computer power!
 
#20
hahaha, sorry about that, you replied when I was reediting my last comment.

I'm still lost with the numbers I should type in.

Do I leave the 8 of the buffer like that? or change it?

There are two boxes where the numbers are, and I can type in, first box is the buffers and says 8 and then the second box that says samples has now 200.

does the first box that says 8 also need to go down?
 

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