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Double Bass sacrilege to Bach?

LedReign

LedReign

Feb 17, 2014
169
100
Seattle, WA
#1
the actual question is below the video...

about a month ago i bought a book that has Bachs Suites 1-6. it is titled J.S. Bach Suites BWV 1007-1012. it is transcribed for bass by Paolo Rizzi (anyone else familiar with this book?). i decided to start with the prelude in Suite 1, as it is one of my favorite pieces written for cello. it was written in G major, but in the book it is transposed to C major. for the past month ive been practicing it in C and using videos of Mischa Maisky and Yo Yo Ma as a reference. it wasnt until today that i searched for a video of the prelude being played on a bass, and i found this gem; Jeff Bradetich playing the prelude in G



so, is it frowned upon to play this iconic masterpiece in a different key just because im playing it on the bass? i realize i may never be able to play it like Jeff Bradetich, but i dont want to feel like i am taking the easy way out.
 
#2
Transcriptions are a time-honored way of playing music on an instrument it wasn't written for. Bach has been dead since 1750; he won't care and would probably have approved anyway. As great as Bradetich's playing is, I still find the "at pitch" thing to be mostly unconvincing. I can still hear the acrobatics and stilted phrasing that allows it to be played this way. The music is great so find a way to play it that matches your abilities and your sensibilities. There's no easy way out. :)
 
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#3
Beautifully put, Neil. I completely agree. Bradetich's performance here is fantastic, as are other at-pitch versions by Edgar Meyer, Daxun Zhang, and many others. But aside from being the most beautiful technical thumb position etudes I've ever heard, I always wonder why bassists play them that way. The idea of "sacrilege to Bach" is very amusing to me for a number of reasons, but especially as regards the key that suites are played in. Due to solo strings, Bradetich and Daxun Zhang are actually playing this piece in A. Going through the first few bars of my cello suite recordings, Anner Bylsma, Janos Starker, Yo Yo Ma, and Adolfo Gutierrez Arenas all play the piece in F#/Gb. I am pretty sure that all of the above are reading the score in G. I feel pretty certain that Bach would not care what key the performances ended up in.

As regards transcriptions of the suites, it has always struck me that once the obstacle of "what key to play it in" is taken away from the realm of "it must remain in the original key because the original key is sacred", it would make more sense to play any piece in a key that showcases the meat of the resonant range of the instrument the transcription is intended for. Personally, as great as the bass performances at pitch are, and as much as I applaud and revere the incredible effort and technique that bassists put in to play them in this register, when I want to hear the suites in this range I always reach for a favorite cello recording. I would much prefer to hear bassists play them using the lower range of the instrument, which is what the instrument was built for, after all. Playing music that requires such precise intonation in the lower ranges presents its own challenges, and the results of this kind of study would be immensely valuable to the skill set of any bassist looking to improve their technique.
 
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#4
While I agreed in principle with the posters above it should be noted (for OP's sake) that playing the 1st suite in G is actually a much easier than playing it in C. Using the harmonics and open strings like JB does solves the string crossing problems that plague the piece when played in C and can yield high level performances on par with the cello.
 
#5
Chris Fitzgerald said:
...once the obstacle of "what key to play it in" is taken away from the realm of "it must remain in the original key because the original key is sacred", it would make more sense to play any piece in a key that showcases the meat of the resonant range of the instrument the transcription is intended for...
Click to expand...
I totally agree. But. I find "at pitch" is actually the easiest key for the first suite, if not the best sounding. When played so high on the bass it totally loses the dark quality it has on the cello, where it lies rather low on the instrument's range. At pitch, however means a lot less shifting!
 
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#7
thanks for the input, everyone! i will continue to play this in C. maybe a few years down the road i will be inclined to play it like Jeff so i can use those harmonics (he does make it LOOK easy)

Chris Fitzgerald said:
As regards transcriptions of the suites, it has always struck me that once the obstacle of "what key to play it in" is taken away from the realm of "it must remain in the original key because the original key is sacred", it would make more sense to play any piece in a key that showcases the meat of the resonant range of the instrument the transcription is intended for. Personally, as great as the bass performances at pitch are, and as much as I applaud and revere the incredible effort and technique that bassists put in to play them in this register, when I want to hear the suites in this range I always reach for a favorite cello recording. I would much prefer to hear bassists play them using the lower range of the instrument, which is what the instrument was built for, after all. Playing music that requires such precise intonation in the lower ranges presents its own challenges, and the results of this kind of study would be immensely valuable to the skill set of any bassist looking to improve their technique.
Click to expand...

seems logical to me, Chris. i love that when i play it in C, i get to hit my low F where Jeff is at 1:20 in the video
 
#8
I have said it recently in another thread, and what I'm saying is under the condition that for me personally , these pieces are not performance pieces, but incredibly valuable and musically beautiful (and rewarding) practice pastimes:
I'm trying to play at least parts of them in all keys. At pitch and octave down. Transposing them by ear, bit by bit.
That said, I personally like their original keys best, at least for the first 3 suites (the last 3 I have not looked at in any mentionable way).

Best
Sidecar
 
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#9
MrSidecar said:
I have said it recently in another thread, and what I'm saying is under the condition that for me personally , these pieces are not performance pieces, but incredibly valuable and musically beautiful (and rewarding) practice pastimes:
I'm trying to play at least parts of them in all keys. At pitch and octave down. Transposing them by ear, bit by bit.
That said, I personally like their original keys best, at least for the first 3 suites (the last 3 I have not looked at in any mentionable way).

Best
Sidecar
Click to expand...

I don't think it's "sacrilegious" but I also don't think anyone has come even close getting at the real core of the Solo Suites on a double bass tuned in 4ths or is likely to. Having had a cello for about 18 months really took the wind outta my sails for playing them in 4ths on the bass. Part of the genius is how perfectly they sit on the cello both sonically and mechanically...watch a youtube vid of Yo-Yo Ma or Rostropovich. What is beautifully logical on the cello is often an exercise in frustration on the DB in 4ths. As a performance piece? For me never. But as you say as an incredibly rewarding practice pastime they're something I'll probably never quit.

If I had the time and the means I'd explore them on a 5ths tuned DB. Anyone ever talk to a 5ths tuned player like Joel Quarrington about the Solo Suites?
 
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#11
Sorry to bump an older thread, but just asking is there a standard "expected" range for them to played in? Many auditions ask for bass transcriptions of Bach, and they can be played in multiple different ways. Should they be prepared at pitch?
 
#12
Jeff Bonny said:
I don't think it's "sacrilegious" but I also don't think anyone has come even close getting at the real core of the Solo Suites on a double bass tuned in 4ths or is likely to. Having had a cello for about 18 months really took the wind outta my sails for playing them in 4ths on the bass. Part of the genius is how perfectly they sit on the cello both sonically and mechanically...watch a youtube vid of Yo-Yo Ma or Rostropovich. What is beautifully logical on the cello is often an exercise in frustration on the DB in 4ths. As a performance piece? For me never. But as you say as an incredibly rewarding practice pastime they're something I'll probably never quit.

If I had the time and the means I'd explore them on a 5ths tuned DB. Anyone ever talk to a 5ths tuned player like Joel Quarrington about the Solo Suites?
Click to expand...
Well the first two suites sit pretty well on the bass in 4ths...
 

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