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Sad cab day - possible dying speaker in Mesa PH410?

#21
The speaker should be tested on its own, unhooked from the wiring harness. Remove the speaker and closely examine it. Look for tinsel wires vibrating against the cone, or any other foreign material. Check the dust cap for a good seal. Inspect the surround for tears. Also examine the baffle cutout for loose plys or bits that could be vibrating. Sometimes a minor repair to the speaker or cab is all that is needed.
 
#22
The speaker is jammed into the cab reaaaaally well, so I've not yet been able to remove it to get a closer inspection. With all the screws out, I tried to pry it out a bit from the front a few days ago, but I'm worried I'll damage something that way. Pushing from the back also didn't work. If anyone's got advice on how to remove the speaker without causing extra damage, I'm all ears.

I figured the scratchy noise it makes when you manually move the cone was pretty telling. The other speakers don't do the same. I'm no expert in speaker construction but the sound/feel of it is something scratching or rubbing as the cone moves. Maybe that's some debris in there, or something misaligned, I don't know. I tried not to move it much, since I'm paranoid of causing extra damage this way.

Whether I replace or repair the thing, I'll have to get it out of the cab eventually, so I'll be able to get a better look at that time. Ideally if it turns out there's something I can just clean out of there and it's actually fine, then hey, that'd be great.
 
#23
A stuck speaker is not unusual. If you can get in there, carefully prying around the edge can release it. I use a car panel removal tool. It’s kind of like a thin fork. You want to take care not to damage the gasket or the frame.

Hearing the scratch is most often a sign of a coil issue but foreign matter can also cause it. You have to sweat the details.


8482E26C-9316-4E8C-AED7-069ABB2AD6C2.jpeg
 
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#24
Not gonna lie, I pulled the trigger on the cab because seeing the Mesa logo made me confident I wouldn't have to "sweat the details", since I've had bad luck with bass cabs before. I've got lots of Mesa guitar stuff, as do lots of the people I jam with and I can't recall ever seeing any of it fail without some significant user error involved.

I have a suspicion that bass gear just takes a lot more beating than guitar stuff does. The failure rate seems a lot higher.
 
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#25
Ok! New update: I managed to get the speaker out of the cab. Closer inspection..... mostly tells me nothing, hah. I see no holes or cracks anywhere in the seals between the cone and other parts, the dust cap looks fine, etc. The wavy bit (spider?) looks like I think it should.

However...

Something about removing the speaker (it took some effort) has stopped the scratchy sound from happening. This makes me think some kind of particulate got stuck in it, and moving/manipulating the whole speaker jarred it loose maybe?

But also...

Now that I can see it in the light, there's the slightest bit of a crease in the cone. It's subtle, and it doesn't bend or flex or anything, so maybe it's entirely cosmetic, but it's there. Maybe a sign the speaker has... seen some better days.

upload_2021-9-21_17-20-6.png

The picture makes it look worse than it is, I think.

I think what I should do is reassemble, and wait to bring this to the jam room where I can try it out properly with some volume. Maybe my panic was for nothing.
 
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#26
Look closely at the other speakers for the same creasing. This is an indication that the speakers were driven well past their mechanical power handling, and need to be replaced. When one has this damage, generally all have much the same damage.

When this happens, the TS parameters of the drivers change (often quite dramatically) and the driver no longer behaves as it's supposed to within the box.
 
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#28
The frame sits flat.

I hadn't thought to look at the other cones for the same creasing - two of them look 100% fine, one of them has a bit of the same creasing. So that makes the two on the right good, the two on the left have those same creases.

I wouldn't have thought to look at it, since it sounded fine.
 
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#30
Potentially dumb question, but does damage like that mean the cab is likely to fail or sound bad reasonably soon, or does this fall into the "as long as it still sounds ok" category?

I haven't had the chance to use any "real" volume yet so...... that'll be an adventure.
 
#31
beans-on-toast said:
With the grille removed, if you turn it up enough and play low notes, you might see the crease show itself.
Click to expand...
Just push gently on the back of the cone and the creases will reveal themselves on the front. Somebody had a loud amp. Good grief.
Sucks you have to deal with it. Happened to me with an Eden 210 which was a loud cab. I learned the hard way.
 
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#32
squish said:
Just push gently on the back of the cone and the creases will reveal themselves on the front. Somebody had a loud amp. Good grief.
Sucks you have to deal with it. Happened to me with an Eden 210 which was a loud cab. I learned the hard way.
Click to expand...

That’s an easy thing to try.

There are different extents of creasing. Some cones are like a wet noodle, others are stiff enough that they require driving to reveal it. If this is a crease and it can be seen at rest, then there’s not a lot of hope for the speaker. Sometimes staining is mistaken as a crease.
 
#33
To be fair, I've been playing around with the cone pretty regularly now while poking around with this cab, moving them a fair bit, and the cones have stayed rigid. Even the one with the worst crease stays in place if I manipulate it by hand. Nothing appears on the other two if I move them. I'm not doubting the advice I'm getting, I do think the speakers have taken some abuse, but I'd definitely prefer to be a little naive and hope there's some life left in them, if I can get away with it.
 
#35
agedhorse said:
Well ok then.
Click to expand...
Sorry, didn't mean to sound dismissive of the advice I'm being given, if that's what it sounded like. If you think from what we know so far that there's not much life left in those two speakers, I wouldn't doubt it. Can't hurt to hope a bit though.

If two speakers end up dying, it starts getting up there in cost to replace or repair. I looked up the CA-10s, and it looks like about CAD$170 each, before any tax or shipping gets involved. I assume getting someone local to do a recone would probably be cheaper - I haven't taken the time to look that part up yet.
 
#37
If there is a reputable local shop that can do the re-cone, preferably with Eminence parts, I would go that route. It won't be cheap , but it might save you enough to get both speakers done for around the price of 1 new one. You could also have them check the other drivers so you'll be confident using the cab after the repairs are complete.

It's a shame you're having this problem, but at least you do have a quality item that is worth repairing. Good luck with whatever you decide...you certainly deserve to have things go better than they have so far.
 
#38
The original speaker used different metalwork, therefore the CA-10 kit won’t work.

This is why I mention often the need to thoroughly investigate all used speaker purchases. This is not uncommon, and can make a cabinet next to worthless.

Generally, when 1 driver is damaged like that, they are all damaged. The parameters will measure far off of spec, and therefore not tune properly within the cabinet (by a lot). Sure they will make noise, but sound nothing like the original cabinet.

The empty cabinet et is probably worth a couple hundred dollars (US) due to the cost of the replacement drivers.
 
#39
Without knowing any better, I would have assumed a speaker needs it's exact recone kit, and you can't mix and match. If the original speaker is no longer available, I imagine there's a good chance recone kits for it also aren't available, right? Which would leave my options at:
  • Replace the speakers with CA-10s (at least the two, but ideally all four if we assume they're all damaged), which is pricey but should result in a solid cab (how much you want to bet still cheaper than if I had bought the cab new)
  • Try to re-sell as an empty cab and eat the loss
  • Do nothing and just be careful with it until the speakers die (it sounds fine at low volume, so maybe it becomes a lives-at-home-only cab), then do one of the above
I'll be going in to our jam room on Sunday, which will give me the opportunity to see if the whole thing falls apart with a bit more volume.

Would it be correct to say that the CA-10s would increase the power handling of the cab? I think the originals are rated 150w, and the CA-10s at 200 - but I'm unsure if this is one of those "measurements like that aren't very reliable" kinds of situations.
 

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