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sad...sad...sad....

My wife just posted this on her journal...

"A friend of XXXXX's lost her 15 month old son the day before yesterday. I knew this lady through working on XXXXX's baby shower in March/April. She was clearly a good Mom who loved her son. The circumstances of his death are hard to grasp - he was running a high fever, the doctor said don't bring him in unless it gets over 105*F, so the parents follow instructions to hydrate him and let him sleep. They go in later to find him aspirating on vomit and he was not able to be revived with CPR. They were able to donate his heart valves."

My wife and I aren't parents, but it's still hard to grasp losing someone so young. I can't even begin to think about the heartache and pain these people are going through. Please keeps these folks in your thoughts/prayers.....:crying:

Dave
 
Bard2dbone said:
105? :confused: 105? :eek:

Surely that was 100.5. I mean seriously. We don't call a kid his age officially febrile until 101.5. But at 101.5, he needs treatment.

105 is just nuts.

+1 Sounds like Doctor had more important things to worry about and couldn't be bothered with a sick child. :scowl: :rollno:

It's pretty sad who we call "professionals" these days.

My prayers for the family...
 
infants typically run much higher fevers than adults. In fact, his advice goes right along with advice we got from doctors when our child was an infant.

Still, I can't begin to imagine what those parents are going through...my heart breaks for them.
 
Diggler said:
Some of you need to research what is considered a dangerous fever before attacking the doctor, who I'm sure knows more about childhood fevers than people on TalkBass.

Invalid Link Removed

It's not even CONSIDERED a fever until 100.5º!

Digglers Helpful Article said:
Infants 3 months to 3 years old
Infants between three months and three years of age present a similar dilemma, only not such an urgent one. It is much more difficult to diagnose which fevers are significant...

Don’t be surprised if the doctor wants to examine your child, since it is hard to evaluate a child’s appearance over the phone. And despite all of these general rules, fever can always represent a serious illness, particularly in young infants. Only your doctor can determine if this is actually the case when your child is ill.

I guess the Doc did a swell job of evaluating this child over the phone, eh? :scowl:
I suppose it doesn't matter now that the little guy is gone and we're going to debate whether or not the Doc did his job, which will be an endless argument. :(
 
I would submit that what the doctor did was standard practice.

When our child was sick, we took the crib into our room, or when older, they'd sleep in our bed so we could keep an eye on him. Just in case they would throw up and choke on it.

If someone INSISTS on pointing blame, it wouldn't be at the doctor, unless HE was tasked with sitting in the room with the nauseous baby while he slept.

And, hey, let's FINISH the quote...

Infants 3 months to 3 years old
Infants between three months and three years of age present a similar dilemma, only not such an urgent one. It is much more difficult to diagnose which fevers are significant. Once again, the younger the child, the greater one’s level of concern. Children under three are usually unable to give you much of a clue as to what is wrong. It is up to us to observe our children in order to decide if a problem is of concern.


You Can Be A Great Help To Your Pediatrician
A pediatrician has years of training and experience that prepares him or her to distinguish medically serious conditions from minor viral illnesses in children. This clinical judgment can be aided by a variety of lab tests, but in the final analysis, the best diagnostic tool is the impression that the child looks sick. As parents, you can be a great help to the doctor by providing a good history of the child’s symptoms and what you’ve done about them, as well as providing your opinion about how sick your child appears to you.

....

I am much more concerned about how the child appears and acts than how high his temperature is. The child with 104° F who is active and playful is of far less concern that the child with 102° F who is lethargic and irritable. High fever often makes you feel bad. Try to reduce the fever and then see how your child looks. If he perks up and looks well again, it is more likely that your child does not have a serious illness. If he continues to look ill despite temperature reduction, you should be more concerned. Statistically, high fevers are more likely to be associated with serious illness than lower fevers, but I am more concerned with how your child behaves. Just having a high fever does not, in itself, mean that your child is seriously ill.

I would say that the parents described the symptoms to the doctor, and they weren't bad enough to warrant an emergency room visit. Once again, the fever didn't kill him; he choked on vomit, which is an anomaly that does unfortunately happen... even in otherwise healthy kids who suffer from acid reflux, as mine did. We either slept in the same room with him or turned the monitor up so loud that any cough or gag would wake us and have us in there in seconds.

And, if you ever want to second-guess your doctor, you are always free to override his decision and take him to the emergency room.

If the child was suffering from a 105° fever, and the doctor said he was too busy or it wasn't bad enough, and THEN the child died of overheating from the fever (not from vomit asphyxiation), THEN I could see blaming the doctor. With the information given, the doctor is simply not at fault.

Decisions were made with the information that was available at the time, and unfortunately a tragic accident occurred. But according to the information given, it wasn't the doctor's fault. It is just one of those senseless tragedies that you hope never happens to anyone.
 
I'm curious; was the doctor that they talked to a GP, or a pediatrician, or an ER doctor? The reason I ask is because if it's an ER doctor, they normally would prioritize the case - and I'm sure a fever wouldn't get up high on the list.

Has your wife's friends looked into ps my baby died yet? When our Grace passed that group really helped my wife and I out. Also I would recommend Compassionate Friends as well, but the PS group deals mostly with baby/infant/young child death, whereas CF deals with death of all types.
 
Diggler said:
I would submit that what the doctor did was standard practice.

When our child was sick, we took the crib into our room, or when older, they'd sleep in our bed so we could keep an eye on him. Just in case they would throw up and choke on it.

If someone INSISTS on pointing blame, it wouldn't be at the doctor, unless HE was tasked with sitting in the room with the nauseous baby while he slept.

And, hey, let's FINISH the quote...



I would say that the parents described the symptoms to the doctor, and they weren't bad enough to warrant an emergency room visit. Once again, the fever didn't kill him; he choked on vomit, which is an anomaly that does unfortunately happen... even in otherwise healthy kids who suffer from acid reflux, as mine did. We either slept in the same room with him or turned the monitor up so loud that any cough or gag would wake us and have us in there in seconds.

And, if you ever want to second-guess your doctor, you are always free to override his decision and take him to the emergency room.

If the child was suffering from a 105° fever, and the doctor said he was too busy or it wasn't bad enough, and THEN the child died of overheating from the fever (not from vomit asphyxiation), THEN I could see blaming the doctor. With the information given, the doctor is simply not at fault.

Decisions were made with the information that was available at the time, and unfortunately a tragic accident occurred. But according to the information given, it wasn't the doctor's fault. It is just one of those senseless tragedies that you hope never happens to anyone.

Ok I'll agree with ya here.

I can't begin to imagine what the parents are going through right now...:(
 
Diggler said:
If someone INSISTS on pointing blame, it wouldn't be at the doctor, unless HE was tasked with sitting in the room with the nauseous baby while he slept.

Just to clarify, the baby only had a fever when they called the doctor. Wasn't spitting up or anything like that.

But the point of me posting this was just to get somemore people thinking and praying for these people, not for anyone to point blame. Things like this tend to dissolve young marriages and I don't think this couple has been married for very long.

Thanks to everyone for your thoughts and prayers.
 
Kitsapbass said:
I'm curious; was the doctor that they talked to a GP, or a pediatrician, or an ER doctor? The reason I ask is because if it's an ER doctor, they normally would prioritize the case - and I'm sure a fever wouldn't get up high on the list.

Has your wife's friends looked into ps my baby died yet? When our Grace passed that group really helped my wife and I out. Also I would recommend Compassionate Friends as well, but the PS group deals mostly with baby/infant/young child death, whereas CF deals with death of all types.

Not sure about the doctor, but I'll try and find out if you're interested.

I'm not sure if they are looking into either of those groups or not. I'll see if my wife can pass the info along in a gentle way. Thanks for the info, and sorry to hear about your Grace.

Dave
 
In all reality 105 is when you would be getting your child definetly in but not to the point of where the child would perish. Journal never stated how high the fever got. The variables need to be known.....how long was the fever(dehydrated), sx(symptoms), was it a high fever after Tylenol or IBU was given etc. Was the child able to cool itself as parents love to swaddle kids and on the flip side they think a cold bath is how you lower a fever.

Reality being fevers are good and natural. It is one of your bodies best way of fighting off an infection.

Sorry Kitsapbass for you loss.