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School me on On-Board Bass Preamps

H13

H13

May 28, 2016
271
395
#1
YO!

Got a Yamaha BB734.

IS GREAT. LOVE IT.

But it's a bit...sterile. Love how it plays, love how the pickups respond, love how well balanced the pickups are, but it could do with some colour.

I was originally considering a pickup swap. I was considering a GZR P\J or Lollar P\J. Then I found the perfect video which compared all 3!



And...honestly? I kinda like the stock pickups best. It was a dead heat between them and the Lollars, but even in the times where I preferred the Lollar, the difference wasn't really significant enough to stress about.

The Preamp on this bass IS very neutral. There's not even a massive difference between the passive\active mode, which on some level I appreciate, but on another level, I suspect the preamp is going to be the best opportunity to add some "colour" to this bass. Also, if I want the "original" sound, I can turn the preamp off and there we go...

BUT:

I'm not a gear expert on bass stuff. I've never messed with preamps soooo...time to ask a forum!

What I'm after:
Honestly, the "thing" that I'm missing is more colourful mids. I like that big low-mid P-Bass thing. The thing where a P-Bass can sound almost muffled because of all the 200-400hz it's got going on. Big and warm and cavernous. I also want to make the J pickup a bit less nasal. I don't know what frequencies the onboard EQ hits and it does a reasonable job of getting what I want, but as I said, I'm after a bit more colour.

So I think I'm after something a bit more "vintagey" to give me that big warm low mid thing. This has lead me to consider an Aguilar preamp? But I'm a newbie with this stuff so I'm open to suggestions...
 
#4
Maybe something with a passive tone before the preamp like a Sadowsky VTC. 200-400 you're talking low mids so if you get a 3band EQ look for one with adjustable mid frequency (Bartolini). Or a 4 band EQ so you have separate high and low mid controls.

External pedal and onboard pre will sound exactly the same (unless the onboard has passive tone circuitry like the Sadowsky). Many external pedals have much more tone shaping than onboard preamps with less work to install (and swap if you don't like them).
 
#5
H13 said:
I suspect the preamp is going to be the best opportunity to add some "colour" to this bass.
Click to expand...
Then you get stuck with the same baked in tone when if you want something different, you have to EQ out that before you can start changin it, or at least limiting the rig's flexibility.

I get why people like old Ampegs and the like - I generally don't but it wouldn't be the basis for my rig as I can't EQ out the muffled rolled off tone it has when I want the wideband clarity for some of the stuff I do. If I was only ever playing old Motown or lo-fi, it might suffice.
BGroovy said:
I'd get a pedal or play with your amp EQ section if you've got one.
Click to expand...

BGroovy said:
if you get a 3band EQ look for one with adjustable mid frequency (Bartolini). Or a 4 band EQ so you have separate high and low mid controls.

External pedal and onboard pre will sound exactly the same (unless the onboard has passive tone circuitry like the Sadowsky). Many external pedals have much more tone shaping than onboard preamps with less work to install (and swap if you don't like them).
Click to expand...
Pretty much this, but it's not only Bart that has variable mids.

A good pedal with EQ flexibility can also have a DI out giving a one shot to your on stage amp/monitoring and to the PA if required.

Look at a Tech21, Fishman or the new Mesa/Boogie Subway+ Bass DI Preamp II Pedal. I'm thinking of getting one of these as it looks flexible and with my tuner is all I need for a bass rig when I'm only paying bass*. Plus it says it has enough gain to drive pro power amps directly which is good as I often use pro amps as they're better $/W and I can get all the tone shaping I need outboard.

* I sometimes double on guitar and baritone especially if we're a duo and a multiFX is better there.
 
#7
Watchootognbout said:
Before you start spending money on pickups.....
See those knobs on your bass?
TURN THEM!
They don't cost anything to adjust.
Click to expand...
Yup. Been there.

The mids are a little too high up. I'd suggest the mid knob was around 600? Maybe 800? I'd like something more low-midsish

Also, for those suggesting pedals and stuff, I'd like to get the correct sound coming out of my bass before it hits the pedals.

crazycloud said:
Then you get stuck with the same baked in tone when if you want something different, you have to EQ out that before you can start changin it, or at least limiting the rig's flexibility.
Click to expand...
This isn't a problem when it's the right noise.
 
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#10
You should take a look at Mike Pope's Flexcore offerings:

www.flexcorepreamps.com

FLEXCORE PREAMPS - High performance onboard bass preamp

The FLEXCORE preamp system will breathe new life into your favorite bass or add the ultimate in tone control to the new bass that you are building.
www.flexcorepreamps.com www.flexcorepreamps.com

I am very into basses with a lot of onboard controls and tone shaping, but each one has different options.

One bass has a standard 3-band, active/passive, a 2-way coil tap, and a 3-way mid select switch. I find the coil tap to be very effective in changing the overall character of the bass. The mid select tends to stay in one place unless I'm in the studio, but it might also be just the right thing for someone who wants to make some subtle adjustments quickly and easily.

My other bass is a lot more complex, with a 4-band preamp and a 3-way coil tap on each pickup. I find the 4-band really good for perfecting the midrange tone, which tends to be where most adjustments need to be made when it comes to cutting through a mix. The individual pickup coil taps do much less tone shaping than the singular tap on my other bass, so in practice it probably would have been fine with a single switch to tap them both at once.
 
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#13
H13 said:
YO!

Got a Yamaha BB734.

IS GREAT. LOVE IT.

But it's a bit...sterile. Love how it plays, love how the pickups respond, love how well balanced the pickups are, but it could do with some colour.

I was originally considering a pickup swap. I was considering a GZR P\J or Lollar P\J. Then I found the perfect video which compared all 3!



And...honestly? I kinda like the stock pickups best. It was a dead heat between them and the Lollars, but even in the times where I preferred the Lollar, the difference wasn't really significant enough to stress about.

The Preamp on this bass IS very neutral. There's not even a massive difference between the passive\active mode, which on some level I appreciate, but on another level, I suspect the preamp is going to be the best opportunity to add some "colour" to this bass. Also, if I want the "original" sound, I can turn the preamp off and there we go...

BUT:

I'm not a gear expert on bass stuff. I've never messed with preamps soooo...time to ask a forum!

What I'm after:
Honestly, the "thing" that I'm missing is more colourful mids. I like that big low-mid P-Bass thing. The thing where a P-Bass can sound almost muffled because of all the 200-400hz it's got going on. Big and warm and cavernous. I also want to make the J pickup a bit less nasal. I don't know what frequencies the onboard EQ hits and it does a reasonable job of getting what I want, but as I said, I'm after a bit more colour.

So I think I'm after something a bit more "vintagey" to give me that big warm low mid thing. This has lead me to consider an Aguilar preamp? But I'm a newbie with this stuff so I'm open to suggestions...
Click to expand...


Well ... You have some possibilities:
Strings - Ernie Ball Cobalt are strings that provides tasty mids.
Bass setup - Yes your bass setup can influence the tone. For your taste and desire, roll off a bit your bridge pickup or if you want default settings, maybe lower the bridge pickup a bit.

Bass On board preamp - you should keep what you have, Onboard preamp are made to be clean and transparent, all of them.
Bass EQ Pedal - Maybe but you are looking for an always ON pedal, fine than you have all the spectrum of bass EQ pedals.
I'd go for a parametric EQ with which you can fine tune where you want your mids.

Amp settings - if possible try to fine tune your tone but remember the sound is made by the speaker so if you mic your cab, you should work with the cab tone and amp settings (True for any steps before).
Bass Cab - The most important piece in your chain is what is making the air vibrates meaning the speaker. If your cab/speaker has a specific tone which can happen than try to work with or do DI.

I know it sounds conter-intuitive but 15" drivers offers enjoyable mids espescially on Pbass tone.
I've hear the best Pbass tone and tasty mids out of a Sunn Concert bass amp / 15" bass cab.
 
#14
I was going to shout out for John East, but that's already been done. There is something in John's designs that keeps them musical and 'organic' no matter what you do with them. But if you want to go off piste a little, have you considered a filter-based preamp such as the Lusitand Devices dual NPF? I recently replaced the dull and sterile MEC preamp in my Warwick Corvette with an NPF and it has totally transformed it into something really special, even without multicoil pickups.
lusithanddevices.com

Pre-amps Archives - Lusithand Devices

A shift in perception of what bass pre-amps can do.
lusithanddevices.com lusithanddevices.com

With that said, I have to echo what @BoogieZK said above about cabs and 'baked-in' tone. The right cab can bring a bass to life; the wrong one will always make its presence felt!
 
Last edited:
#15
Obviously we conversed briefly in the other thread. I have a 735a, but I enjoy the sound. However, when I'm running active, I personally turn the mid completely off and just work with the bass and treble knobs. I also use cobalt flats (pretty bright but round out some of those harsher highs). That's just my preference, but for you, it could even be as simple as trying a different set of strings than you normally would.

I can also second on the sound quality on the John East preamps. Had one in a stingray some years. Extremely versatile.

And last but not least, I've had delano pickups recommended to me constantly by Yamaha people when I was inquiring about changing my own someday.
It sounds like you got this though! You'll find your happy place
 

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