Please share what sort of things you have asked for on a rider. Things you wish you had asked for on a rider. Things to watch out for on with riders.
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School me on riders
- Thread starter socialleper
- Start date
What types of venues/events are you thinking of? Backyard parties? Weddings? Arenas?
I wasn't aware that small events like weddings had riders.
Let's say club/theater sized shows as an opening band.
Any contract can have riders, whether someone will take you up on them depends how in demand you are and if they can afford it. Even for small events you might have some technical riders, such as how and who will provide electricity, staging, lighting, PA. I also like to put in a requirement for when/how long to have access to the venue for setup. I usually ask for food and drinks for the band too.
Possibilities for larger venues might included green room/dressing rooms, parking for RV/equipment van, hotel rooms, etc. That said, I think most opening bands just take what they are given unless they are in high demand.
buldog5151bass
Kibble, milkbones, and P Basses. And redheads.
Opening acts seldom have much say. I would be most concerned about the backline.
I use both a technical and hospitality rider - two separate documents. Many of our contracts have a hospitality budget included in the house nut, and they will shop/spend or just keep that for themselves if we don't specify it - which is a built-in expense. If the shopping list or provided hospo doesn't meet the allotted budget, we would get the balance as a buyout. I usually have to sign that I have received hospitality.
Hospo rider has food/drink type things if the venue provides. If the food/drink is left for someone at the venue to decide on, it's usually not what we would want. We have a vegan in the band, so the venue needs to know that if they are providing meals/catering. I try to make it as easy as possible and edit the rider depending on the band members currently on tour. Some like Vanilla Coke, some hate that crap, for example.
Tech rider has stage plot with complete input list, monitor mix preferences, backline requirements (if backline is provided), A/V preferences/requirements.
At most tour stops, I see printed copies of these emailed-in-advance documents, so the venues are using them. There are some venues, however, that never look at them, and prefer to ask the band when they're onstage what instruments we have and how many vocals we need - or if we need anything for backstage.
Hospo rider has food/drink type things if the venue provides. If the food/drink is left for someone at the venue to decide on, it's usually not what we would want. We have a vegan in the band, so the venue needs to know that if they are providing meals/catering. I try to make it as easy as possible and edit the rider depending on the band members currently on tour. Some like Vanilla Coke, some hate that crap, for example.
Tech rider has stage plot with complete input list, monitor mix preferences, backline requirements (if backline is provided), A/V preferences/requirements.
At most tour stops, I see printed copies of these emailed-in-advance documents, so the venues are using them. There are some venues, however, that never look at them, and prefer to ask the band when they're onstage what instruments we have and how many vocals we need - or if we need anything for backstage.
One of these days, I'll play a gig where we have a rider. OK, maybe not. You've gotta be pretty high up in the pecking order to be talking about this sort of thing. If you're there, I'd think you'd have management do that for you.
Doing FOH, a couple of times I worked with bands that had technical riders. I sent emails saying what we did and didn't have on their rider. Both times, the band was clueless about any technical details. As I was FOH (they didn't have a sound person), it was a very odd chat - usually a technical rider precipitates a couple technical people talking about things - the venue's person, and the FOH person (who travels with the band). Anyway, I did what I thought was best, they were fine with that.
I have no idea why a band would forward a technical rider if they had noone you could discuss details with - I think maybe they thought it was a good idea to have one, and copied someone else's, but in the end, it was a useless exercise.
When you get to a certain level, then this kind of communication becomes absolutely necessary. Are you there yet? If you don't travel with technical people, I'd argue no. Food riders and the like are things that come into the picture long after you need a technical rider.
Doing FOH, a couple of times I worked with bands that had technical riders. I sent emails saying what we did and didn't have on their rider. Both times, the band was clueless about any technical details. As I was FOH (they didn't have a sound person), it was a very odd chat - usually a technical rider precipitates a couple technical people talking about things - the venue's person, and the FOH person (who travels with the band). Anyway, I did what I thought was best, they were fine with that.
I have no idea why a band would forward a technical rider if they had noone you could discuss details with - I think maybe they thought it was a good idea to have one, and copied someone else's, but in the end, it was a useless exercise.
When you get to a certain level, then this kind of communication becomes absolutely necessary. Are you there yet? If you don't travel with technical people, I'd argue no. Food riders and the like are things that come into the picture long after you need a technical rider.
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- EVERY band should have a tech rider/stage plot. It should be emailed to the club or venue contact at least a week before the show in an 'advance' email - where you also touch-base with the venue on the day's run of show schedule.
This does a number of things besides giving production a head's up. It immediately sets you apart from the bands that do not do this, and also shows you have a professional interest in the show other than just showing up, and that you are available to make their lives easier.
Hospitality riders are, of course, usually reserved for touring artists and negotiated well in advance, and usually part of the contract. For an opening band situation, ask whomever your contact is the question, "Is any hospitality provided for us? I just want to know what to tell my band." If no - then you absolutely know where you stand. If yes, their immediate follow up will be, "What do you need?" Have an answer ready that's suitable to the gig. Do not say Patron and green M&M's. A case of beer (be specific, especially if there's something you don't want) and case of water for the band is a reasonable ask for an opening band on a decent-size show. An opener on a Tuesday at the local pub might get drink tickets only good for Natty Ice. Whatever it is, say thank you and mean it.
This does a number of things besides giving production a head's up. It immediately sets you apart from the bands that do not do this, and also shows you have a professional interest in the show other than just showing up, and that you are available to make their lives easier.
Hospitality riders are, of course, usually reserved for touring artists and negotiated well in advance, and usually part of the contract. For an opening band situation, ask whomever your contact is the question, "Is any hospitality provided for us? I just want to know what to tell my band." If no - then you absolutely know where you stand. If yes, their immediate follow up will be, "What do you need?" Have an answer ready that's suitable to the gig. Do not say Patron and green M&M's. A case of beer (be specific, especially if there's something you don't want) and case of water for the band is a reasonable ask for an opening band on a decent-size show. An opener on a Tuesday at the local pub might get drink tickets only good for Natty Ice. Whatever it is, say thank you and mean it.
Our church brought in JJ Heller to do a show a few years ago. JJ is a sort of "has been". Had a hit on the radio decades ago but her music doesn't fit the commercial profile so she was shelved.
We received a 3-4 page "rider" that specified things from what sort of FoH mixer to have, the IEM systems, approved keyboards (we provided), and insurance we had to provide. I ended up talking with JJ's husband (manager) who was very up on all it said. He was flexible and we provided what was needed to the best of our ability.
The show went well. People commented on how good it sounded. JJ did a stellar performance! Stellar. Riders? They were useful in ensuring that all the things needed for everyone to succeed were in place.
We received a 3-4 page "rider" that specified things from what sort of FoH mixer to have, the IEM systems, approved keyboards (we provided), and insurance we had to provide. I ended up talking with JJ's husband (manager) who was very up on all it said. He was flexible and we provided what was needed to the best of our ability.
The show went well. People commented on how good it sounded. JJ did a stellar performance! Stellar. Riders? They were useful in ensuring that all the things needed for everyone to succeed were in place.
I’ve used technical riders even when hauling our own PA to out of town bars/weddings/etc. You would be surprised at how many people don’t understand basic power and stage requirements and I find it helpful to clearly outline our needs in signed contractual form. You would also be surprised at how little thought goes into feeding the band if they are playing during dinnertime. A hospitality rider helps ensure you aren’t forgotten about.
As a soundman I love getting a clear stageplot and input list so I can be prepared and ready to soundcheck as soon as the band is setup. Even solo acts benefit. Nothing worse than thinking everything is done and ready to go at 5 minutes till doors open and the artist says “oh and we’ll need to mic this digeridoo that i need a lot of in the monitors but also tends to feedback and i only use on this one track for ambience.”
As a soundman I love getting a clear stageplot and input list so I can be prepared and ready to soundcheck as soon as the band is setup. Even solo acts benefit. Nothing worse than thinking everything is done and ready to go at 5 minutes till doors open and the artist says “oh and we’ll need to mic this digeridoo that i need a lot of in the monitors but also tends to feedback and i only use on this one track for ambience.”
Maybe best to just show you a rider document.
This is for Avishai Cohen jazz trio. Very specific on many details
This is for Avishai Cohen jazz trio. Very specific on many details
Oh yeah....we're treated like rock stars! We actually get first dibbs on the cold leftover chinese food that the headliners don't eat. Rock stars, I tell ya...ROCK STARS!
Several riders:
Sound riders
Load in riders - when, how, what time. Venue should describe any load in issues here.
Stage spec riders, inc. power requirements and outlets, stage itself, roof if needed
Band stage layout riders - inc. miking, amps, drums.
Pre show accommodation riders
Also food riders.
All should be read and approved at signing of the contract. If not, make a contractual note and add it in/ My band had the band's stage layout included. I can say this - the band was treated in much more pro manner when we presented these contracts and riders. We had learned the hard way to specify everything..
Sound riders
Load in riders - when, how, what time. Venue should describe any load in issues here.
Stage spec riders, inc. power requirements and outlets, stage itself, roof if needed
Band stage layout riders - inc. miking, amps, drums.
Pre show accommodation riders
Also food riders.
All should be read and approved at signing of the contract. If not, make a contractual note and add it in/ My band had the band's stage layout included. I can say this - the band was treated in much more pro manner when we presented these contracts and riders. We had learned the hard way to specify everything..
Similar to @Mo'Phat, my GB group has two riders. The hospitality rider covers green room accommodations, food, drink, parking (if applicable), etc. It also describes who all will be in attendance from our group (members, sound engineers, videographer, photographer, etc.) which helps the client understand who is covered by the rider. The technical rider covers obvious things like a stage plot, PA requirements if we're not providing sound, I/O requirements for our monitoring rig as we always use our own IEM system and never rely on the venue/client to provide that even if they offer, load in/out times and location, etc. It also covers certain lesser-known items such as stage size. We have minimum stage dimensions given which band configuration the client has paid for (i.e. did they add a horn section? did they add backup dancers?). If those can't be met, then the band must be scaled down or the client must provide a bigger stage. We also include things describing the type of overhead cover on outdoor gigs.
Most importantly, if certain rider items can't be met then the client either has to provide a sufficient cost increase for us to provide them ourselves, or if they're impossible we simply won't take the gig. We also provide a grace period from the time a contract is signed to the time when it becomes finalized by us. If the rider stipulations are not guaranteed in writing along with a paid non-refundable deposit, then we cancel the contract.
By comparison my originals act is not on a level to demand much, but we do also have riders. The hospitality rider specifies bottled water for all band members backstage and on-stage, as well as the same treatment for our monitor engineer that we bring. The technical rider is little more than a stage plot and I/O list for our monitoring rig since we're almost exclusively using house FOH at clubs and theaters.
Most importantly, if certain rider items can't be met then the client either has to provide a sufficient cost increase for us to provide them ourselves, or if they're impossible we simply won't take the gig. We also provide a grace period from the time a contract is signed to the time when it becomes finalized by us. If the rider stipulations are not guaranteed in writing along with a paid non-refundable deposit, then we cancel the contract.
By comparison my originals act is not on a level to demand much, but we do also have riders. The hospitality rider specifies bottled water for all band members backstage and on-stage, as well as the same treatment for our monitor engineer that we bring. The technical rider is little more than a stage plot and I/O list for our monitoring rig since we're almost exclusively using house FOH at clubs and theaters.
In my experience in negotiating riders (and contracts) they can contain whatever the relative bargaining strength of the parties will allow. Their primary usefulness is in making sure that the talent and the booker/promoter are on the same page and agreeing on the same set of issues IN ADVANCE, rather than as an enforcement tool after the fact when assumptions didn't materialize.
I knew a guy who was in a touring tribute band. They always put underwear and socks in their rider so they would not have to do laundry as often. Seems unusual but sensible.
I worked for a small sound company that served club touring acts in the 80s and frequently had backline requests and sometimes FOH stuff we couldn't fulfill. Sometimes the acts were pissed. (Seems like it was the replacements that were super annoyed with our 12" floor mons and brought in their own side fills bigger than our mains for a tiny club).
Anyway, ask for the moon, expect to make due with what you get in the PA/backline department. If you're working big enough gigs to get catering, I assume it's similar (don't expect them to pick out the red M&Ms).
Anyway, ask for the moon, expect to make due with what you get in the PA/backline department. If you're working big enough gigs to get catering, I assume it's similar (don't expect them to pick out the red M&Ms).
When I was working as a sideman or hired gun in the 80's I had a rider that specified my term of contract, per diem, performance fee, expenses, transportation, portage, hospitality, accommodation, cancellation fee and equipment requirements. This was all handled by my booking agency which was SHOWCO at the time, unusual as they normally handled technical folk not musicians but I was both. My one stipulation was a penalty if I was ever provided an Ampeg amp or speaker as backline of various amounts over the years, I really disliked those amps [still do] ~ and the feeling was mutual.
Later on riders became in some cases pretty silly like the mention above, blue M&Ms and specific liquors.
Later on riders became in some cases pretty silly like the mention above, blue M&Ms and specific liquors.
Chicken salad sandwiches w/ monterey jack on whole wheat; lotsa mayo, tomato slice.
Cheese Nips or Cheetos.
Potato or mac salad.
Tonic water.
The rest we can talk about at the load in or on stage/soundcheck (yah right = a soundcheck).
For I am but a simple man
Cheese Nips or Cheetos.
Potato or mac salad.
Tonic water.
The rest we can talk about at the load in or on stage/soundcheck (yah right = a soundcheck).
For I am but a simple man
