School Me On SVT’s

[Mike Marshall]

An Ampeg SVT. I’ve been playing bass for 45 years and I’ve never had an SVT and I think I want one. For at home use only. I would never want to move it. What are reliable years, etc.? Thanks for the help!

I would suggest trying a V4 B it would be much more practical. I also am not an SVT fan, for me the EQ points don't work. I owned a V4B in the 70's and liked it a lot my son has the reissue and I think it sounds better that the SVT.

 

[Basvarken]

An SVT for home use only is total overkill.
Way too much power. Its charm will only come to full fruition when the tubes really have to work. Which will never happen at home.

 

[Mastermold]

SVT's are great live on a big stage situation. Personally, I love how they sound. They're not the clearest sounding amp, but they sound massive.

For home use, in a small living room, an SVT wouldn't be my first choice. There's plenty of smaller amps these days that'll do similar things that the SVT does, but at lower volume, less space, and fewer repairs.

I wouldn't worry about repairs with and SVT, in my experience they're bulletproof. I know a guy whose SVT fell off his 810 when it toppled and the dang thing still worked just fine. You will eventually need to replace the tubes maybe once a decade (or two or three, depending on how much use it gets), but that's it really. Still, for the OP's need in a home amp, I'd recommend the PF-50T over an SVT, no need to spend that much money when there's less expensive options.

 

[Old Ozzie Guy]

Obviously I am nuts

If it's not clear, the 810 is the part of the equation that does not work well for me. I think my SVTs sound pretty good through more full-range cabs.

FYI, I made the MTI work. I bought an Orban 672A and biamped the SVT into a Fender Twin Reverb loaded with JBL E120. If you think an Ampeg and 810 is too much hassle, try stacking a Twin loaded with JBLs on top. The Twin gave me the nice clear mids and extended highs I like, and the 810 worked really well as a woofer.

In the late 80s I played (6str gtr) in a band, who's bass player used I Fender twin , I don't know the model, me being Marshall Mad) it was 120 watt with 1 JBK K130 15", and a JBL E 140 in a ported box. IMHO I loved his sound (+playing). I "think " the K130 was from factory, I'm pretty sure it's an extended range mid spk. The JBL E 140 in ported box ran like a sub underneath the twin . I had totally forgotten about that rig, that guy, that band.. Easily THE best guitar amp IV ever heard, used for Bass.

 

[Old Ozzie Guy]

PS . regarding the SVT, for home, pf50t , with 1 or 2 svt210avs...anyone??

 

[baxter_x]

An SVT for home use only is total overkill.

I can't agree more.
There are many other options to consider for home use.

 

[J-Bass RMR]

I picked up the VR when it came out (~2008) with sort of the same intent - since there aren't as many venues these days that would "accommodate" an SVT stack.

A few years later, I picked up a SVT 212AV, and then the reissue V4B.
That combination was better suited for my tastes / needs.

I actually thought the SVT head sounded better on the 212, and the V4B was a better fit on the 810.

I no longer have the SVT stack. I wouldn't mind getting the amp again some day, but I'd get a model with the Master Volume.

The other thing you need is a local tech that knows tube amps.
Both amps had some minor issues when I got them (new), and I'd rather pay my local tech that I can talk to face to face than pay to ship it somewhere.

 

[Gilmourisgod]

Uggghhhh. The Immovable Object. I owned one in my 20's, and it was PITA then. I'll admit I dont get it, in order to get that tube distortion everyone raves about, it has to be cranked, and if you do that at home, you'll vibrate the hinges off the doors. If there's some kind of magic Mojo in there, my ears can't hear it, at least at volumes that arent physically painful. Have you ever actually played through one in a store? But... the Heart wants what the Heart wants. Hope its what you dreamed of in reality.

 

[sgiacomo]

An Ampeg SVT. I’ve been playing bass for 45 years and I’ve never had an SVT and I think I want one. For at home use only. I would never want to move it. What are reliable years, etc.? Thanks for the help!

I splurged on a new one to get the five year warranty. 50th anniversary SVT head and matching 810 cab is what I chose. Sounds amazing. There is no substitute IMO… Overkill for home use? Nah, it’s badass!

 

[roccobass]

I picked up the VR when it came out (~2008) with sort of the same intent - since there aren't as many venues these days that would "accommodate" an SVT stack.

A few years later, I picked up a SVT 212AV, and then the reissue V4B.
That combination was better suited for my tastes / needs.

I actually thought the SVT head sounded better on the 212, and the V4B was a better fit on the 810.

I no longer have the SVT stack. I wouldn't mind getting the amp again some day, but I'd get a model with the Master Volume.

The other thing you need is a local tech that knows tube amps.
Both amps had some minor issues when I got them (new), and I'd rather pay my local tech that I can talk to face to face than pay to ship it somewhere.

Yep. I got a more defined sound on a 2x12 cabinet too.

 

[retslock]

Find one and play it before you buy. The 8x10 cabs were designed for high volume big venue application and don't sound particularly good at low volume in a small room. The svt head with a 2x15 or 4x10 can might be a better choice

Having played a large festival gig last year I got to use a couple of SVTs. One with a 4x12 cab and the other with an 810. I didn’t like the 810 at all but the 4x12 was very good.

 

[31HZ]

Bottom Line Up Front:
SVTs and 810s are not super common, but I strongly recommend that you put in the effort to try before you buy, if you have not already done so.

FYI the first bass rig I ever bought was a brand new MTI ear SVT and 810. I did a lot of research and everyone said the SVT was the best possible amp. I had one special ordered and was super excited. Within seconds of playing through it for the first time, I realized I had made a mistake.

I am not saying this rig sucks, but it's really not my sound. The 810 in particular is very heavily voiced and one of the least transparent cabs I have ever played through. I thought it sounded awful. It was so bad that I wondered if it was damaged or perhaps some sort of black market fake. But every SVT and 810 I have played through since then sounds pretty much the same.

An SVT and 810 are a big investment...do your due diligence to make sure it actually is your dream rig.

I am sure @JimmyM will be along eventually and he can correct and expand on what I will tell you.

I am not aware of any unreliable years for vintage SVTs. FYI, the last vintage-style SVT was the 87 Skunk. These amps have been around for a long time and many of have been rode hard and put away wet. That doesn't necessarily mean they will be unreliable. It does mean they may have incurred cumulative damage and been repaired with multiple bodges over the years; so caution is warranted.

If an amp works well, it may be okay. You could pay a tech to take a look. Otherwise you roll the dice.

FYI the 87 Skunk was a special issue amp that was produced while the Ampeg was being reorganized after MTI declared bankruptcy. The new owners (LOUD) designed and issued the SVT Classic.

Years later Ampeg made the SVT VR which was functional recreation of the original signal path, but these amps were not built like the originals. This model has been recently discontinued; essentially replaced by the SVT Heritage 50th AV. The main functional difference between the VR and 50th AV is Channel 2 of the 50th AV is voiced different than the VR.

The following amps have a two channel preamp. Vintage SVT, SVT VR, SVT 50th AV. The preamps have lot's of clean headroom and they do not have a master volume. To get OD you have to push the output section over the edge...meaning you don't get OD unless you are playing loud.

The SVT Classic (CL) amps have a master volume and the preamps are designed to be a bit more gainy...meaning you can crank the gain for preamp drive and then adjust the master to determine how loud you are playing. The SVT CL has one preamp channel and it is voiced fairly similar to channel 1 of the vintage-style amps.

There were also rack based SVTs designated as SVT II, SVT 2, and SVT 2 Pro. AFAIK the original SVT II was closest to the vintage amps. It only had vintage channel 1 in the preamp, but added a graphic. As the model evolved a master was added, so it was more like an SVT Classic. The 2-Pro is a further evolution.

I own a 69 and 87 Skunk.

The 69 used a different output tube (6146). The 87 runs 6550s like most SVTS, however it uses 12AX7s in channel 1 of the preamp rather than 12DW7. Three resistors can be changed so it can run 12DW7 in channel 1, but IMHO it's not worth the effort. I bought both amps because I wanted to experience both output tube types.

The 87 was near mint and has all original tubes, except maybe V1. It sounded great when I received it, but about a week later one of the main filter caps shorted. I shotgunned a full cap job and the amp has not had further problems. I kept the caps that I pulled out, and later bought a meter that tests capacitors. Several of them were out of spec.

Electrolytic capacitors degrade if they are not used. My guess is the Skunk had not been powered on for an extended time, so the capacitors went bad. It's also possible that the capacitors used to make the amp were expired. Ampeg tried to make the Skunks as authentic to the originals as possible. The capacitors they used were high quality, but I believe they were New Old Stock; rather than fresh from the factory.

I have done a lot of work on the 69. I purchased it for $1,350 including shipping--it seemed like a bargain, but you know what they: "If it seems to good to be true...". At this point the total sunk cost is $2,039. I have done all the work myself, and put almost $700 worth of parts into the amp. The bottom line would be much higher if I had to pay a tech.

The 69 arrived with a failed 6146W and a few fried resistors. I replaced the resistors and bought/installed a matched set of output tubes. Later I did an essential factory update that should have been done in the early 70s. It still hummed excessively and was low on power.

The amp had a high quality replacement power transformer. I was aware of the replacement transformer when I bought the amp, but I was not aware that Ampeg used different power transformers for 6146 and 6550. In order to run the 6550 transformer, a resistor circuit was used to drop about 130V off the screen supply. This is why the amp was low on power--when the tubes are cranking the screens pull lots of current, which caused the screen voltage to sag across the resistor network.

So the amp had the wrong transformer and no one offered an off-the-shelf replacement. I spent several years gathering as much data as I could and eventually had Heyboer wind a custom 6146 transformer for me. The amp makes really good power now.

There are quite a few other minor things I fixed in the 69 and I also did a full cap job as it was running many of the original caps from 69. It still hums a little, but I consider it acceptable.

The 69 and 87 do sound a bit different, but most would recognize the sound of both as SVT. The Power PC card in the 69 is a mess and shows repeated repairs. Many of the solder traces are damage or missing. My guess is the card would be in much better condition if the required (reliability) update had been performed. The resulting tube failures could also be behind the eventual failure of the power transformer.

This shows the 69 in the middle of installing the new Heyboer transformer. I have cut the leads for the 6550 transformer off the Power PC card on the left. If you look carefully you will see the ends of six wires. Look down the right edge of the card for the small bits of colored insulation.
View attachment 5199878
You can see the reliability mod in the top right of the Power PC card. It involves cutting solder traces, adding a couple of bridges to different traces, and adding a capacitor and resistor. You can also see some of the damage the circuit card has incurred. In order to make this amp roadable I would goop up the power supply capacitors on the right with silicone RTV. Since I am not planning to gig it, I have left it this way to facilitate ease of maintenance.

This post should be stickied somewhere! Thank you @Wasnex for another white-paper-caliber post.

 

[semiprohooker]

I had a CL and 810 that I toured with for years playing 200ish shows year. It held up remarkably well. I never had to do anything more than retube it. And the easy biasing meant there was no extra fees involved. I loved that rig.

That being said, I moved to a 63 B-15N for the house and it sounded incredible. Not exactly the same, but damn good. HOWEVER, I've since moved on to modelers from that. I run through a Kemper now and absolutely love it.

For home use, I would highly recommend scaling back to a V4B or PF50. SVTs sound great throughout the volume range, but they sound FANTASTIC when you get to open them up. But opening them up at the house is ridiculously loud.

 

[Admiral Akbar]

Pf50t and pf20t are handy and cute, and v4b sounds really nice, but for me none of those possess the anywhere near the magic that is the SVT. Yes, totally they are all related — but so much of the magic of the SVT exists because of its very power alone.

 

[_Some Dude]

Wow! A lot of eye-opening reality here! Maybe a modeler would be better….or a B-15.

There's a certain segment of TB that doesn't like the SVT and will recommend against it in all scenarios. Their opinion isn't wrong as it is right for them, but it is just an opinion.

Going smaller isn't a bad idea, but even 50w is loud if you don't have the space to open it up. If I understand it correctly the PF50 is voiced closer to the V4B than the SVT or B15, so that's a consideration. They're not just smaller versions of each other.

I probably don't mind using an SVT at low volumes because I use the CL and have a master volume. I've been backlined the SVT-VR and even at gig volumes it was cleaner than I would typically dial in my own amp. The experience kinda killed my GAS for that amp, and I probably wouldn't want one at home as I would prefer more dirt in my sound.

I have both the 810E and 212AV... when it comes to volume they both produce whatever volume you set the amp at. The idea that one is too loud and the other isn't comes down to operator error.

The 212 does a great job of sounding more or less like the 810, and if size/weight are a consideration they're a great option, but it's firing at my legs so I tend to run it a bit louder than the 810 to compensate, hence my preference for the 810 in low volume situations.

The 212 also cost double what my 810 did because people are selling used 810s at a steep discount and its hard to find a used 212.

On the modelling side, I liked the SVT models in the Fender Studio 40. If I were looking for a practice amp that did the SVT thing at a reasonable volume I'd probably get that.

 

[KevInDaBassment]

While not having owned the classic SVT and 8x10 rig itself, I've owned some all-tube amps over the years. Both Traynor YBA200 heads, Peavey VB-2, and an Ampeg PF-20T. One thing was common across all of them, you gotta push them to REALLY have the heads open up...or at least that was my experience. Nothin is going to sound exactly like the SVT + 8x10s but itself.

Props again on the Wasnex post, make sure it's the sound you want. Fortunately, just playing at home (I'm assuming here...) without a band means cutting through won't be a concern. Room acoustics can play a big role, but you'll have a better idea of your taste playing it at a store than others might who want to gig it. Everyone has their own tastes, so take this with a grain of salt, but I hear lots of great things about the Mesa TT-800 and Subway cabs in regards to "tube tone". If I had SVT money on hand, I'd be taking a look at them. YMMV, again nothing is going to sound like the SVT and 8x10s but that. Happy thumping

 

[Gravedigger Dav]

If you're the kind of person that drives an 18 wheeler to 7-11 to get a 6 pack, then an SVT for home practice would seem reasonable.
Seriously, it is overkill. A 25 watt combo is all you need at home for personal practice. If you plan to have friends over to jam, something about 100 watts will do.
I play with a 3 piece rock band and use a Fender Rumble 100 combo for band practice.

 

[MegaSwing]

I had access to one years ago in a rehearsal space at a bandmate’s house. The 4x10 cab was a cut-in-half 8x10. It would always be the gold standard for me. It cut like a chainsaw dipped in bacon grease, just a dominant, bodacious sound. I’ve never had an interest in taking on the inherent hassles of owning one. I can come pretty close with other rigs. Godspeed.

 

[Jim C]

Obviously I am nuts

If it's not clear, the 810 is the part of the equation that does not work well for me. I think my SVTs sound pretty good through more full-range cabs.

FYI, I made the MTI work. I bought an Orban 672A and biamped the SVT into a Fender Twin Reverb loaded with JBL E120. If you think an Ampeg and 810 is too much hassle, try stacking a Twin loaded with JBLs on top. The Twin gave me the nice clear mids and extended highs I like, and the 810 worked really well as a woofer.

I think we both go for a cleaner tone and not so sure others feel the same way.
It's only 300 watts so they really are not super powerful. Many would say that if you wanted very clean, loud, and headroom for a rock band, you better have an efficient cabinet (which the 8x10 is). Much more power available if you like distortion.
Before I bought my Berg cabinet I called Jim and asked him how an SVT might work with a full range cabinet like the HT322 (2x10, 1x12, horn). He said they sound great. Bought one and never looked back tone wise.
Honestly, I liked my V4B best for tone but it was often times not enough clean power even with a 2x15 cabinet.
The clarity and 3D imaging with my SVT-CL has never disappointed. Even though I rarely take it to gigs, it has become my sonic standard by which others are judged!
Long Live The King...

 

[DrThumpenstein]

Starting with Wasnex's unabashed statement about how SVTs suck, he sure has wasted a lot of time and energy on them... I don't get it....

Given his thoughtful and helpful reply, from a guy who knows his amps, and has a lot of experience with SVTs, you sure seem to be wasting everyone's time throwing shade on the dude. At least his response has something to do with the original post.