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Double Bass Seemingly random octavising

M

MartinBorgen

Jun 21, 2010
402
1
Stockholm, Sweden, Europe
#1
Hello!

I've noticed when I play that sometimes, when attempting to bow a note, i get one or sometimes even two octaves above pitch in some kind of harmonic weird way. At first I thought it was because of newbie playing from my part, but now that I started playing in a string ensebmle, I chose to borrow a bass there rather than lugging this full-plywood thing all the way. I've been going through them all one at a time, and I get this problem only on my own bass.

Is this a techqnique thing after all or should this be moved to the setup or basses section to discuss the bass in question?

I've noticed the phenomenon mainly when playing high notes, more frequent as you approaches thumb position. And yes, I've made sure that I'm pressing the string all the way down to the fingerboard and still get this problem.

Help appreciated.:help:
 
#2
There are a bunch of different reasons for this. Since you mention trying different basses, it might be the strings. Some aren't as friendly for arco as others. Personally, I've found spirocores (strings with the red silks at the bottom) harder to start.

Another possibility, since you mentioned that the problem is exacerbated in higher positions, is that your bow is shifting vertically along the strings further than is necessary for the change in positions. The bow can't be too close to the bridge or too far away from it.

Hope this helps.
 
#3
It is certainly is affected by the bow's vertical position allthough I'm pretty sure that I don't move very much when playing high. I try mainly to move ever so slightly downwards when I near thumb position, and if I take care, i can almost completely avoid the problems, except that the normal octave-harmonics (G on the G-string) start to show the same behaviour instead. I bet you can imagine the problems of playing the Eccles sonata I in the beginning... :rolleyes:
 
#4
It's called 'falsing', and it's a technique problem (although strings and setup do make a difference). To make life easier: use less rosin, the least bow hair tension you can get away with without the stick touching string or hair, make sure the sound post is not too tight, if your tail wire is the coat hanger stuff, get it changed for stainless airplane control cable/yacht rigging (same stuff). Changing strings can help, but you should be able to play without falsing even on Spirocores.

Now the technique part (rosin and hair tension sorted): you're probably playing at the wrong distance from the bridge, and just dragging the bow across the string. Instead, you need to kind of 'pluck' the string with the bow, just a little pulse of extra pressure during the start, and you need to discover how the right distance from the bridge varies with how loud you're playing, what bow speed you want to use, what roll angle you're using on the bow, and what note you're playing.

You need to play closer to the bridge (but not too close) if: you're playing higher notes, you're playing louder, you're using a slower bow. And the opposite as well. Bow hair squarer to the string goes with closer to the bridge, mostly.

But practice is the only real cure. Systematic practice, changing all the variables in your technique, and finding out how they go together. In the end, it's a matter of teaching yourself what feels right and going with it.
 
#5
When I've had this problem, I've found that slowing down the bow speed usually cures it.

Of course, as the notes get higher, your bow speed does need to increase, just don't overdo it.

And as Andrew M. says, don't use the edge of the hair. Using all the hair on the higher notes really helps suppress the unwanted upper partials.
 
#6
tstone said:
When I've had this problem, I've found that slowing down the bow speed usually cures it.

Of course, as the notes get higher, your bow speed does need to increase, just don't overdo it.

And as Andrew M. says, don't use the edge of the hair. Using all the hair on the higher notes really helps suppress the unwanted upper partials.
Click to expand...

I've tried during today's practise to understand this, but I still feels this as a random occurance. I found that I still have the problem on all registers, not just when playing higher notes. Bow speed don't seem like the main reason - of course I'm not perfect by far, but I saw no connection there, maybe to the way I start the notes, using all the hair and a lot of pressure seemed to clear out any weird harmonics, but you can't really go around playing forte all the time...
 
#7
It's all about the start, really. Keep working on it, this will come right eventually. Pay attention to the feel of what happens as the string starts vibrating, that will start to cue you in. You can't see any difference, and all the things that make it work happen silently, so your sense of touch is all you can use to work with it.
 
#8
I have a similar problem though it is not random. The 'falsing ' only occurs when I am slurring from a 'fingered' note eg D above the stave to an open note on the same string. very frustrating. I'm working at the Bourees from the 3rd Cello Suite and am making progress albeit very very slow. This happens 6 bars from the end of the first Bouree when slurring from B to open G. Any advice welcome
 

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