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session playing

#21
More important than the economy is technology. What happens when a program is invented that allows you to write out the part in standard notation and run it through your signal chain, or maybe even have a customizable virtual signal chain - and out pops an mp3? Seeing as just about every computer program is pirate-able, it would be a free alternative to a session player, and possibly a free alternative to effects and a nice amp or preamp. I'm sure it would also become a recording studio staple, therefore leaving no reason to ever have a session player around.

Considering everything we can do today, does that really sound far fetched?

In order for a skill to make you money, there must be demand for said skill and a medium for you to do it. Technology could obsolete both. A continuing poor economy could obsolete both. They may not, no one knows the future, but it's a legitimate possibility.

I'm never going to tell anybody what they should do with their life, especially over the internet. I'm just pointing out that we're in a free-market economy and a hyper technological society. Think about how much the world has changed every decade back to the 1900's or so. What makes you think it stops here? If you take offense to what I'm saying you're just being delusional.
 
#22
I've done hundreds of sessions and the key is being a good person as well as a good musician.
I have my own studio now...but being a decent human being is the key to success in any project.
Art is the only thing separating us from Apes.
If you're in it to be famous or rich it aint gonna happen...
 
#23
I'd say the best advice is to take every single gig you can get. This applies to all freelance musician work, but especially to sessions. You never who you're going to meet while you work on some singer's hopeless demo.
 
#24
Earthday said:
More important than the economy is technology. What happens when a program is invented that allows you to write out the part in standard notation and run it through your signal chain, or maybe even have a customizable virtual signal chain - and out pops an mp3? Seeing as just about every computer program is pirate-able, it would be a free alternative to a session player, and possibly a free alternative to effects and a nice amp or preamp. I'm sure it would also become a recording studio staple, therefore leaving no reason to ever have a session player around.

Considering everything we can do today, does that really sound far fetched?

In order for a skill to make you money, there must be demand for said skill and a medium for you to do it. Technology could obsolete both. A continuing poor economy could obsolete both. They may not, no one knows the future, but it's a legitimate possibility.

I'm never going to tell anybody what they should do with their life, especially over the internet. I'm just pointing out that we're in a free-market economy and a hyper technological society. Think about how much the world has changed every decade back to the 1900's or so. What makes you think it stops here? If you take offense to what I'm saying you're just being delusional.
Click to expand...

I don't take offense, but I do think you're missing something. There will always be a need for live human beings playing instruments. Besides what's the point in just giving up? or not trying to do do something the best you can? Fine, maybe telling some young player that the session world has plenty of room for another bassist is irresponsible, we should all have a back up plan. With that said, I don't see any harm in helping someone become a better musician.

If you feel the way you do, why are you on this site? Why not focus on building the technology for this future you predict?

And one more thing, they said the player piano would bring an end to musicians, recorded music would kill the demand for live music, and the cassette machine would kill the record industry.
 
#25
Earthday said:
What happens when a program is invented that allows you to write out the part in standard notation and run it through your signal chain, or maybe even have a customizable virtual signal chain - and out pops an mp3?
Click to expand...

I guess then the people who are good at writing parts will write the parts. That means that a person who is good at creating funky and cool and imaginitive bass parts that nobody else would have thought of will get lots of work. More "arranger" than player maybe.

Not that there won't still be people who will hire real people. We have tons of drum machines in modern music - they're everywhere. Are there still session drummers?

Work on your creativity.
 
#26
DocBop said:
Also build up your recording skills and even consider setting up a good home studio. Some guys are doing session via the internet.
Click to expand...

This is KEY these days! A must-do in my book. 80% of the bass sessions I do now are remote in my own studio.
Even the first-call, top-of-the-heap guys are doing it this way more and more . . .
 
#27
Being able to write out a notated part and then process it through a signal chain DOES exist already. Many producers and engineers work with notation software, sample libraries and sequencers to create phrases, songs and even entire albums.

It's a matter of what a project's intent is, it's context and it's available resources.

The people calling the shots might want the "human element" for parts of their project, the stuff that recording studios alone could never create or recreate (primate type stuff...monkeying around, so to speak) Or maybe they desire things that a machine could do, but that a human operator could accomplish in far less time.

And that is why session musicians exist in the first place, right? So they can translate a musical idea into musical reality, even if the facilities of the producer, band leader, engineer, songwriter, whoever in question are lacking in some dimension.
 
#28
Earthday said:
Considering everything we can do today, does that really sound far fetched?
Click to expand...

Well, speaking as a professional digital visual artist by day and musician with an education in music technology by night, I can say with confidence that computers will never eliminate the demand for a human artist.

You already can notate a part, have the computer play it, voiced by a very convincing virtual instrument, and run it thru your signal chain etc etc...and save as mp3. It will sound like it was played by a computer, which is fine if that's the sound you want. You might spend hours and hours tweaking you sequence to "humanize" the playback and even get a decent result. But eventually you reach a point where it's more cost effective to hire a human bassist to play parts when that's the sound you are after.

Computers can do amazing things, and have eliminated many of the barriers to professional quality production (both Art and Music) but they ultimately only do exactly what they are told, and the results can only be as good as the "programmer's" efforts. I can't imagine the effort required to "fake" a convincing bass performance that might pass for a human session player. Easier to just pick up my bass and play it.
 
#30
pbass2 said:
This is KEY these days! A must-do in my book. 80% of the bass sessions I do now are remote in my own studio.
Even the first-call, top-of-the-heap guys are doing it this way more and more . . .
Click to expand...

I get a lot of work this way.
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
Here's an example of what can be done.
Dasinu (the guitar player) dubbed in his part from Europe...Even though we have never met!
By the way.. He also did the same thing with "The best unsigned bassist" on the "HARTKE" site...
Good Stuff!
JW:bassist:
 
#32
Why's everyone assuming I'm talking about musicians here? I am strictly talking about the recording industry and sessions players. Of course there will always be a love and need for creative musicians, music teachers, and performers. What you all should do is not make assumptions about what I'm trying to say and just read the words.
 
#33
I understand that computers can't quite get that human sound, but I am proposing that it becomes possible that they do. I really think it's a possibility. I mean, I'm sure they can't exactly nail the dynamics you want, but neither can a human who isn't the human who wrote the piece. At that point, someone could write out all the parts, find all the tones they want, adjust all the dynamics, balance the parts, and have a studio-quality recording. All without paying anything to anyone except possibly the original purchase of the program.

It's just a suggestion, that, in combination with the already available cheap and very effective recording units and software, the option of pirating music and the general unprofitability of recorded music, and the economic crisis and looming shortage of jobs (and money) I think spells bad news for the recording industry, therefore session players.

I am no psychic and don't claim to be. I just think anyone heading towards that career path should really understand exactly what constitutes that job being available and profitable, and what the future could have in store for it. If it were me I'd be learning a trade or getting a degree on the side during my journey to the studio
 
#35
Earthday said:
More important than the economy is technology. What happens when a program is invented that allows you to write out the part in standard notation and run it through your signal chain, or maybe even have a customizable virtual signal chain - and out pops an mp3? Seeing as just about every computer program is pirate-able, it would be a free alternative to a session player, and possibly a free alternative to effects and a nice amp or preamp. I'm sure it would also become a recording studio staple, therefore leaving no reason to ever have a session player around.

Considering everything we can do today, does that really sound far fetched?

In order for a skill to make you money, there must be demand for said skill and a medium for you to do it. Technology could obsolete both. A continuing poor economy could obsolete both. They may not, no one knows the future, but it's a legitimate possibility.

I'm never going to tell anybody what they should do with their life, especially over the internet. I'm just pointing out that we're in a free-market economy and a hyper technological society. Think about how much the world has changed every decade back to the 1900's or so. What makes you think it stops here? If you take offense to what I'm saying you're just being delusional.
Click to expand...

I know a few people responded to this already but you ignored them.....

THIS TECHNOLOGY HAS BEEN IN EXISTENCE FOR MANY YEARS IT'S CALLED MIDI

Actually looking at your profile your 20 I can surely say everything that you think we can someday possibly invent that might seem far fetched has been around for a long long time most before you were born.

Seriously check out the new protools update, you can write out standard notation or play it in on a keyboard via midi. This can be played back through a virtual bass, preamp, cabinet, mic choice and even choose mic placement. They are teaching this stuff in HS now.

Now if arrangers could just come up with a Jameson bassline for every tune that's being written we might be in trouble. One thing that seesion guys do is create bass lines. If session playing was only about sight reading it might be that easy...
 
#36
Earthday, take your argument to painted art and not just musical art. If technology were to ruin a field, wouldn't there be no painters any more? I mean Photo Shop CS3 (or whatever they're up to) could assist them and finish the job in 1/2 the time. Visual art is in high demand. That's why we have computer graphic artists and painters. Same deal. We have computer musicians, so to say, and human musicians. I see it as a split in the genre of career, not the death of one.
 
#37
Wow this thread is now going really deep. It is very interesting to guess what will happen to studio musicians.

From my experience as a recording musician for the last thirty years (and still going, lucky me) I see a big change in the recording industry. Yes there is less and less studio work but I think it will always be there because there is a need for it. It could be for an album, or a show or a Live TV show or a movie or sometimes for jingle but those are fading out big time now. Even a small town has his own recording music scene.

I think there are two sides for a recording musician to be good at and the best ones can do both:

First) you are an incredebale reader and a great musician so you can read anything "playable of course" ( even correcting errors on charts while sight-reading ) and bring some spices and ideas when needed or required.

Second) Very creative musicians (especially bass players) who can bring a simple song into a hit by doing the right track with hooks, feel and originality and great sounds. ( Check Tony Levin, I believe he is the most creative of all !)

Songs will be songs and we need them and they need us. Good musicians can bring them to the next level.

Here some of my heroes from both sides:

Will Lee, Abe Laboriel, Nathan East, Anthony Jackson, David Hungate, Neil Stubenhaus, Louis Johson, Marcus Miller, Tony Levin and recently Justin Meldal-Johnsen.
There are many more but those are the ones I did study a lot.

If someone wants to be a Studio musician it is very possible if you put the right effort and yes a lot of luck is needed especially now. But you can make it happen for real if you want to !

Start by studying the players who inspires you, and that are doing it or did it !

Anyway it won't hurt to study the masters !

Sly
 
#38
Earthday said:
I understand that computers can't quite get that human sound, but I am proposing that it becomes possible that they do. I really think it's a possibility. I mean, I'm sure they can't exactly nail the dynamics you want, but neither can a human who isn't the human who wrote the piece. At that point, someone could write out all the parts, find all the tones they want, adjust all the dynamics, balance the parts, and have a studio-quality recording. All without paying anything to anyone except possibly the original purchase of the program.

It's just a suggestion, that, in combination with the already available cheap and very effective recording units and software, the option of pirating music and the general unprofitability of recorded music, and the economic crisis and looming shortage of jobs (and money) I think spells bad news for the recording industry, therefore session players.

I am no psychic and don't claim to be. I just think anyone heading towards that career path should really understand exactly what constitutes that job being available and profitable, and what the future could have in store for it. If it were me I'd be learning a trade or getting a degree on the side during my journey to the studio
Click to expand...

Read your first posts, you didn't say what you're saying here.

What are you going to do, hide your head in the sand? Not pursue your passion because you're afraid it may be obsolete? Come on man, with the way the world is right now NOTHING and NOBODY is safe. There's terrorism, war, economic hardship, famine, disease, the list goes on. Maybe we should all use our instruments to board our windows up and our amps to barricade our doors and just wait for it all to end.
 
#39
Michael Case said:
Read your first posts, you didn't say what you're saying here.

What are you going to do, hide your head in the sand? Not pursue your passion because you're afraid it may be obsolete? Come on man, with the way the world is right now NOTHING and NOBODY is safe. There's terrorism, war, economic hardship, famine, disease, the list goes on. Maybe we should all use our instruments to board our windows up and our amps to barricade our doors and just wait for it all to end.
Click to expand...

That's actually exactly what I said throughout my original posts. The only sentence in all my posts I could see anyone getting defensive about is "The recording industry, and session playing is not a realistic place to set your aim, because the economy points to it becoming obsolete." Maybe I should have thrown an "IMO" before it, because it is my opinion not a fact. Other than that, any difference in my posts is just difference you're perceiving.

It's not about giving up on your passion. It's about the fact that life isn't a fairy tale land and most people on earth have to separate their passions from their jobs. Think about the millions of people in China stuck in repetitive manufacturing jobs with awful conditions making just enough to feed themselves and get a crummy apartment where they can't afford to use water or electricity. Yet some people over here seem to think it's unfair that they can't make a living playing music. My whole point is that there are jobs, but they require a lot of luck, and IMO there are only going to be less in the future. The job market doesn't make openings for every individual's dream. I don't get why I'm such a bad guy for telling someone who is thinking about a career the fact that probability will have a lot to do with him actually getting a job in the field.

I like how you're trying to paint a picture of me with the whole "board up the windows" thing. I haven't said a thing about war, and my views on the economic crisis don't reflect my views on anything else. It's not just a cycle or just another recession. It is a completely new crisis brought about by the global market, which has only existed in its current form for about 15-20 years. The outcome of previous recessions and depressions have nothing to do with this one. We are on a completely different field here. Again, everybody should really read up on it, because that, along with the "green" revolution is what is going to shape our future. It's not about fear, it's about knowing your world. It's a complicated place.
 
#40
In all actuality no one is going to get a gig that will pay all their bills when they're starting out. Everyone's got to climb up the totem pole just like everyone else did before them. It's not wise to stick all your eggs in one basket but it's also not wise to crush people's dreams just because of what CNN or Fox News shoves down our throats.

The key to getting a job in the music business today is to be sociable, be available, look presentable, and get exposure. You may be the best bassist in the world but if you're jamming to CD's in your bedroom then no one will know. If you're a decent player and someone hears you at a show and happens to like your style and wants it on their next project then you've got a gig. Global economy crapping out or not, you've got to get out there and play, play, play.
 

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