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Short scale flats similar to GHS Precision Flats but with a stiffer E string?

Apr 11, 2007
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SoCal
I have a Gibson SG bass that is currently strung with GHS Precision Flats. The strings have been on the bass for about a year and a half, so they’re well broken in by now. I love the tone and feel of the A, D and G strings. The E, not so much. It’s a little weak, floppy and undefined. I tuned the E to an F# just to see how the increased tension would do, and it balanced much better with the other strings and seemed clearer and punchier, and the tension was right where I wanted it to be. Since GHS only offers one gauge for the E string on their short scale flats (.095), I’m wondering if there are other short scale flats that would give me a similar tone and feel to the GHS P Flats, but with a thicker/stiffer E string.

Dunlop flats seem to be well-liked. Are these the way to go? Also eyeballing DR Legends or LaBellas. I am open to other string suggestions, but I do want flats, not rounds, tapes, half-rounds, etc. And I’ve had Chromes on this bass before, the feel and tension were good, but it wasn’t where I wanted to be tonally. Looking for a little more old school. Thanks for the input!
 
In my experience, the best sounding flatwound E-strings tend to be in slightly brighter sets, not in the more "old school" ones (i.e., GHS, Labella, Pyramid), especially when using a bass that is already somewhat "heavy" sounding like an SG. Dunlops are more balanced sounding across all strings, as are Fender 9050s, TIs, Chromes, and the Ernie Ball Cobalt flats. All of these have more articulate E-strings and can be found in relatively light gauges, though you may have to use long scale sets for some of them (e.g., Fenders and Chromes; this is not usually a problem, by the way). Going "old school" will usually mean a relatively thumpy/less lively sounding E, I am afraid, especially on a traditional humbucker-type bass.
 
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I’ve had GHS, Fenders, Chromes, Ernie Balls, TIs and LaBella LTFs on various 34” basses, and did have some Chromes on the SG before. I will agree with your comments about the E string @bassobrutto. But I am pretty committed to wanting to keep more toward the old school side of things with the SG. I just feel like the GHS need some more mass and/or stiffness to the E. Trying more to get around the looseness and floppiness and perceivably weaker volume.
 
OK. Three personal experiences with short scale strings:

1) La Bella 760FL. Yes, the E string can get a little thumpy, but overall it is the least thumpy over time of the "old school" flats. My friend had a set which I helped him get used, and the E string never completely thumped out. Yes, old school, but a good old school, with good articulation and tone. I would put them on my shorty, but for #3 below. I do have them on my mid scale Jaguar H which turned it into a veritable mid-scale funk machine.
2) First alternative. Not really a flat, but La Bella 60-115 nylon tape. They are a different mellow than flats, but a good mellow. Underneath the tape they are essentially as set of 45-100 conventional rounds, so they don't get thumpy, either. If you are wanting to get away from "old school," the white tapes are marginally brighter than the blacks. I gigged a set of whites for two years of constant gigging before the frets finally wore divots into the nylon and rendered intonation insecure. But they never lost their tone since the nylon wrap keeps finger gunk from killing the strings. You may have to adjust the nut slots to fit the strings. It's been awhile since I have mounted a set, so I bought a set to go along with purchased parts for a frankenbass that is my upcoming winter mid-scale project bass.
3) And now for something completely different and my favorite: GHS Balanced Nickels round wound on a round core. The set on my shorty travel bass has been on the bass for two week-long annual trips to Mexico with my party band and are still going strong. Wait - there's more. Being rounds, the E string doesn't get thumpy. With the round core, the G string is not twangy. They are consistent string-to-string and up the neck. They last a long, long time. Reasonable price. Big, round tone. They are not edgy like NPS rounds can be. Nickel is more dense than NPS, so there is more tension than with NPS of the same gauge. Over time, they mellow to a woody goodness reminiscent of "golden era" Fender flats, but still modern tone.

To my hands, all three of these sets have adequate tension and feel: not too tight, not too rubber-band-y. Each set has great consistent tone for its respective genre. By definition, a shorty is about two frets shorter than a regular long scale bass, so any string set will feel like tuning a conventional long scale bass with the same or similar gauge strings down to D-standard then capo the second fret. The physics simply preclude a really stiff E string.

I have to comment about a couple of recommendations above: neither Fender Flats nor Ernie Ball Cobalt Flats come in short scale. If Fender Flats came in mid scale, I would play them. I love their modern growl. I gigged a set of regular long scale 9050CL (no longer offered) on my custom P-style fanned fret bass for two years. When the E string started to thump, I bought a single 105 Ernie Ball stainless steel flat and gigged the set for another year. But the Mustang to the contrary notwithstanding, you really do risk breakage both from the tight bend over the bridge saddle with the string-through-body, and the tight wrap of the E string speaking part around the tuner post. So I can't in good conscience recommend them for a short scale bass, although the tone and feel are superlative on regular long scale basses. Likewise, I can't recommend DR nor Dunlop: DR, although they may have short scale back in production, start dark, get darker, and darker, and darker, and from the initial post, it appears that's what is being avoided. Likewise, cost. I just can't justify the cost of the Dunlop when there are other lesser expensive, and to my ears, better sounding strings out there. YMMV.
 
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OK. Three personal experiences with short scale strings:

1) La Bella 760FL. Yes, the E string can get a little thumpy, but overall it is the least thumpy over time of the "old school" flats. My friend had a set which I helped him get used, and the E string never completely thumped out. Yes, old school, but a good old school, with good articulation and tone. I would put them on my shorty, but for #3 below. I do have them on my mid scale Jaguar H which turned it into a veritable mid-scale funk machine.
2) First alternative. Not really a flat, but La Bella 60-115 nylon tape. They are a different mellow than flats, but a good mellow. Underneath the tape they are essentially as set of 45-100 conventional rounds, so they don't get thumpy, either. If you are wanting to get away from "old school," the white tapes are marginally brighter than the blacks. I gigged a set of whites for two years of constant gigging before the frets finally wore divots into the nylon and rendered intonation insecure. But they never lost their tone since the nylon wrap keeps finger gunk from killing the strings. You may have to adjust the nut slots to fit the strings. It's been awhile since I have mounted a set, so I bought a set to go along with purchased parts for a frankenbass that is my upcoming winter mid-scale project bass.
3) And now for something completely different and my favorite: GHS Balanced Nickels round wound on a round core. The set on my shorty travel bass has been on the bass for two week-long annual trips to Mexico with my party band and are still going strong. Wait - there's more. Being rounds, the E string doesn't get thumpy. With the round core, the G string is not twangy. They are consistent string-to-string and up the neck. They last a long, long time. Reasonable price. Big, round tone. They are not edgy like NPS rounds can be. Nickel is more dense than NPS, so there is more tension than with NPS of the same gauge. Over time, they mellow to a woody goodness reminiscent of "golden era" Fender flats, but still modern tone.

To my hands, all three of these sets have adequate tension and feel: not too tight, not too rubber-band-y. Each set has great consistent tone for its respective genre. By definition, a shorty is about two frets shorter than a regular long scale bass, so any string set will feel like tuning a conventional long scale bass with the same or similar gauge strings down to D-standard then capo the second fret. The physics simply preclude a really stiff E string.

I have to comment about a couple of recommendations above: neither Fender Flats nor Ernie Ball Cobalt Flats come in short scale. If Fender Flats came in mid scale, I would play them. I love their modern growl. I gigged a set of regular long scale 9050CL (no longer offered) on my custom P-style fanned fret bass for two years. When the E string started to thump, I bought a single 105 Ernie Ball stainless steel flat and gigged the set for another year. But the Mustang to the contrary notwithstanding, you really do risk breakage both from the tight bend over the bridge saddle with the string-through-body, and the tight wrap of the E string speaking part around the tuner post. So I can't in good conscience recommend them for a short scale bass, although the tone and feel are superlative on regular long scale basses. Likewise, I can't recommend DR nor Dunlop: DR, although they may have short scale back in production, start dark, get darker, and darker, and darker, and from the initial post, it appears that's what is being avoided. Likewise, cost. I just can't justify the cost of the Dunlop when there are other lesser expensive, and to my ears, better sounding strings out there. YMMV.

This brings up a related question I have.

I play LaBella LTFs on my Reverend Watt and Squier CV Mustang. I'm thinking about tuning the Watt to Drop C. That's too floppy for the LTFs. I like them at standard and the E can handle Drop D. Anything lower than that means different strings. Which strings would give me the "LTF sound and feel" at lower tunings? My current frontrunner is the DTF 49-109 set, but I haven't played them. Your thoughts appreciated.
 
This brings up a related question I have.

I play LaBella LTFs on my Reverend Watt and Squier CV Mustang. I'm thinking about tuning the Watt to Drop C. That's too floppy for the LTFs. I like them at standard and the E can handle Drop D. Anything lower than that means different strings. Which strings would give me the "LTF sound and feel" at lower tunings? My current frontrunner is the DTF 49-109 set, but I haven't played them. Your thoughts appreciated.
Yes, I would go with La Bella flats in your choice of gauges probably the standard 45-105 or yes, the medium 49-109. Note that if you get too heavy gauge on a short scale bass it will tend to thump and you might need a nut adjustment. So unfortunately you have a choice to make: a little looser than you are accustomed to, or a little thumpier than you are accustomed to. In my experience, all La Bella flats have similar tone to each other, with a little more heft with the larger gauges.
 
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How are the GHS Brite Flats?
Just looking at the gauges, the P Flats (short) are 45-60-75-95 Light, whereas the Brite Flats are 49-62-84-108 Regular.
Kinda crazy that they only offer one set of each for short scale and the gauges vary so widely.
 
Yes, I would go with La Bella flats in your choice of gauges probably the standard 45-105 or yes, the medium 49-109. Note that if you get too heavy gauge on a short scale bass it will tend to thump and you might need a nut adjustment. So unfortunately you have a choice to make: a little looser than you are accustomed to, or a little thumpier than you are accustomed to. In my experience, all La Bella flats have similar tone to each other, with a little more heft with the larger gauges.

I guess that seals it. Thanks!
 
How are the GHS Brite Flats?
Just looking at the gauges, the P Flats (short) are 45-60-75-95 Light, whereas the Brite Flats are 49-62-84-108 Regular.
Kinda crazy that they only offer one set of each for short scale and the gauges vary so widely.
Mass. It's all about mass. The P Flats are exactly that: flat ribbon wrap around the core. The Brite Flats are misnamed. They should be named ground rounds. The top of the wrap is ground off so there is a lot of space between the windings and the core. Ironically, because of the density of the alloy 52, there may actually be more tension in the Brite Flats set. I would use them, and I bought a set for a cousin's short scale bass (mumble) decades ago, but I don't care for their tone, and to me they are a little uneven in tension and feel string-to-string.
 
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I have a Gibson SG bass that is currently strung with GHS Precision Flats. The strings have been on the bass for about a year and a half, so they’re well broken in by now. I love the tone and feel of the A, D and G strings. The E, not so much. It’s a little weak, floppy and undefined. I tuned the E to an F# just to see how the increased tension would do, and it balanced much better with the other strings and seemed clearer and punchier, and the tension was right where I wanted it to be. Since GHS only offers one gauge for the E string on their short scale flats (.095), I’m wondering if there are other short scale flats that would give me a similar tone and feel to the GHS P Flats, but with a thicker/stiffer E string.

Dunlop flats seem to be well-liked. Are these the way to go? Also eyeballing DR Legends or LaBellas. I am open to other string suggestions, but I do want flats, not rounds, tapes, half-rounds, etc. And I’ve had Chromes on this bass before, the feel and tension were good, but it wasn’t where I wanted to be tonally. Looking for a little more old school. Thanks for the input!

In my limited opinion, Labella DTFs offer the closest to what you are looking for. Multiple gauges to choose from. Many here like the FL set - I prefer the FS set personally. FL set is great also though - so really its a matter of feel at that point.
 
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La Bella LTF’s. I’ve lately tried GHS P-flats on my PJ Mustang—same problem with E as you describe, among others. Chromes—in their own world, plenty of discussion on TB. LTFs—just wonderful, old school sound, good feel, easy to play & versatile for different styles. I like them with both pickups on, as they have a ton of (pleasing) bottom, and they like the mid-boost.
 
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I have technically a short scale bass -- My Charlie Hunter 7 string 30 on the E - it is fan fret - Novax dimensions). The main reason it pops is that I tuned the bass like Charlie up to G. Plus the action is also high. I use GHS lite flats and also D'Addario black tapes. On my Fender Jazz Bass Special, I use light Cobalts but set the action high. Many Salsa players use the spirocore solo strings which are made to be tuned to F# but they tune them to E. It is almost counter intuitive but lower gauge strings can give you more thump and that's what I am experiencing with my Fender with light Cobalts 95 on the E - but my action is high. You cannot do tapping on my bass
 
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Not sure if it's been suggested or tried already, but if the GHS strings you like are flexible, you could just install a regular scale E string and use it along with the ADG you have. You'll probably be wrapping string around the tuner, but that shouldn't make any difference I'm aware of. Good luck.
 
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First thing, if you haven't already tried it, raise the E string (or bass side of the bridge, depending on the type of bridge). Sometimes that can go a long way for a floppy E string.. But yeah I've struggled with ghs flats and chromes with the E's being floppy or weird with intonation, and raising the saddle didn't cure everything.
La Bella's 760FL set are great if you want the old school La Bella sound (also 760FS and LTF, just depends what tension you like). I've also had some 45-105 Dunlop flats on my musicmaster for 3 years now and they sound great, sound engineers always love that bass. Can't go wrong with either of those, although I will say the Dunlops may be slightly more versatile since they have a bit more high mids going on.
 
Thanks all for the feedback! (and keep it coming :thumbsup:)

Kind of kicking around Dunlops, GHS Brite Flats and LaBella DTFs. Trying to read/research those a bit now.

Mass. It's all about mass. The P Flats are exactly that: flat ribbon wrap around the core. The Brite Flats are misnamed. They should be named ground rounds. The top of the wrap is ground off so there is a lot of space between the windings and the core. Ironically, because of the density of the alloy 52, there may actually be more tension in the Brite Flats set. I would use them, and I bought a set for a cousin's short scale bass (mumble) decades ago, but I don't care for their tone, and to me they are a little uneven in tension and feel string-to-string.

Looking at the tension charts on GHS's website, the short scale Brite Flats have 27lbs more tension overall, and over 10lbs more just on the E. The E string spec on the Brite Flats tuned standard is equivalent to tuning the E string on the P flats to a G. I kinda like that idea.

Not sure if it's been suggested or tried already, but if the GHS strings you like are flexible, you could just install a regular scale E string and use it along with the ADG you have. You'll probably be wrapping string around the tuner, but that shouldn't make any difference I'm aware of. Good luck.

Hmm... I do conveniently have a long scale E and A string that I'm pretty sure are GHS P Flats (they were in a bulk used string purchase I made a few years ago). Maybe I'll try that. But I'd be wrapping a good few inches of the wind length around the tuner, so that gives me a little pause. Though I really don't care if I damage the string...
 
Thanks all for the feedback! (and keep it coming :thumbsup:)

Kind of kicking around Dunlops, GHS Brite Flats and LaBella DTFs. Trying to read/research those a bit now.



Looking at the tension charts on GHS's website, the short scale Brite Flats have 27lbs more tension overall, and over 10lbs more just on the E. The E string spec on the Brite Flats tuned standard is equivalent to tuning the E string on the P flats to a G. I kinda like that idea.



Hmm... I do conveniently have a long scale E and A string that I'm pretty sure are GHS P Flats (they were in a bulk used string purchase I made a few years ago). Maybe I'll try that. But I'd be wrapping a good few inches of the wind length around the tuner, so that gives me a little pause. Though I really don't care if I damage the string...
When I have a string that is too long, and it is a conventional top-mount plate bridge, I cut a length of 6mm od/4mm id steel tubing and run the string through that before going through the bridge. That takes up the slack. I got that tip here on Talkbass, but I don't remember who the original poster was years ago. Here is a picture of a Squier Tele bass, mid scale, with the extensions so I can use regular long scale strings on it:

Tele Bass With Extensions.jpg