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Should an amplifier colour your tone?

#21
JimmyM said:
Funny...when I've bought amps in the past, the only consideration I ever had was "do I like this sound, or do I not like this sound". All of a sudden, the internet introduces some of these meaningless terms to our lexicon and they're accepted as law.

I like my way better.
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Lol, yes. It seems if people put so much emphasis on "coloration" they might be searching forever for an amp that sounds "uncolored" without stepping back and simply asking instead "does this amp sound good?"

I don't want a tube amp because of talking about their "coloration." I want one because when I've played through them, the sound was really cool.
 
#22
JimmyM said:
Funny...when I've bought amps in the past, the only consideration I ever had was "do I like this sound, or do I not like this sound". All of a sudden, the internet introduces some of these meaningless terms to our lexicon and they're accepted as law.
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Long before the internet, flatter frequency response with better off-axis characteristics and better dynamic linearity was desired for studio and live sound reinforcement. Why? Because that can better reflect any source's tonal signature better from a wider variety of listening positions, and better represent what is going on when adding coloration for expressive purposes, especially valuable when recording or representing a band in a live venue. The two approaches - accuracy and predictability in results, and backline and mics chosen expressly for their tonal footprint - can work hand in hand. This becomes all the more desirable when designing or using modeling gear, too.

I like my way better.
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I like having both available.
 
#23
to me, the answer is.. It Depends.

I like a little of both. The rap on some amps is that they sound cold (SWR) or too warm (Ampeg, maybe) - - From what I've read, Aguilar is a good compromise - and my one piece of Aggie gear (GS212) seems to support that - - sounds great with my Ashdown head - a bit more punchy than my epi cabs.
 
#24
This doesn't really related to bass, but I heard that when Quincy Jones was in the studio with MJ recording thriller, they double-tracked with a plain 'ol SM58. If you look at the frequency response of the SM58, its TERRIBLE; weird pits in the midrange, spikes at weird mid-bass and treble frequencies. However, for some reason, it sounds REALLY GOOD to people; which is probably why they are used everywhere. Whether is inherint in the human ear, or they are so ubiquitious we've been "trained" to like the sound of the SM58, the fact remains that on the best-selling album ever, the vocals have a track of VERY colored, non-flat vocals! But, I agree; you'd definately want awesome, flat, hi-fi speakers for mixing/mastering/enjoying the record.
 
#27
Marcus, very well put! However, I DO think there can be a right and wrong with this issue. If you are in a Rock/Pop/"indie" band, the hi-fi sound just doesn't work; the bass tends to stand out too much, be too boomy, or fade away in the giant chasm that was scooped out of the mids! On the other hand, latin music, dance, more traditional pop, etc, the aggressive, "fuzzy" tones that sounded awesome and driving in the Rock band would be simply obnoxious! So let's not get too carried away with the whole, "whatever you want" idea; its whatever fits with the music you are playing. To be a "hi-fi" guy or a "vintage tubes" guy exclusively really limits you.
 
#28
Is there even a way to "really" know what your bass sounds like? If I were to play through amplifier A, and I concluded that amplifier A had weak lows and maybe a bump in the mids, how am I to know that that isn't what my bass actually sounds like? Perhaps I play through amplifier B, which I think has a scooped sound...maybe thats actually what my bass sounds like. All you can really know, it that amplifiers A and B sound different.

Perhaps there's a way you can watch your bass' signal on a screen with little green lines waving all over the place and compare that to what comes out of an amp? I don't know, or care. All that matters to me is that it sounds good (to me).
 
#29
Mine certainly does. Ampeg rig and 8-10 cab. But I like the colour. So in my case....

1. doubt it
2. what you DESIRE is up to you...."ought" doesn't factor in
3. I guess the closest thing would be a DI box into a flat EQ channel into flat response studio monitors. Even that would have to slightly colour things.
 
#32
Personal preference. I like to think of my amp/cab being a big part of my instrument. I have nice basses, so I've got nothing to hide, (tonally), but there's always stuff that could be added. I've chosen the gear I use because I like the way they interact, and above all, I like the way they sound together. Simple.
 
#33
I believe that anything sold in the "Bass" market is colored. Many times to a "Familiar" coloration for the manufacturer.

FOH market tries to achieve uncolored sound but can't 100%, but at least they will publish measurements to let you know how far off of 100% they are. And FOH EQ systems these days can achieve high accuracy.

Same for studio gear.

IMHO Adding coloration is best done through signal processing. It's most reliable, most reproducible at different volume levels.

I don't understand why more bass players don't demand measurements of amps and cabs. That gear costs enough to warrant it. If you ever need to change your gear you'd know what you have now and where you're going to be.
 
#34
seamonkey said:
I don't understand why more bass players don't demand measurements of amps and cabs. That gear costs enough to warrant it. If you ever need to change your gear you'd know what you have now and where you're going to be.
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And what that does to the sound.

Bass cab specs are often ludicrously inaccurate. Some sort of accurate measurements would be nice.

As would some sort of standardized way of sampling them. I would love it if someone would test amps, cabs, various combinations of such, in some sort of equal way. It wouldn't be perfect, of course, but even someone playing something common, like a P-bass, through a bunch of different amps and posting high quality sound clips of each one (preferably long enough to tweak the EQ and gain settings) would be nice.
 
#37
Every peice of gear that your signal goes through colors the sound. Pull up threads on any peice of gear you can think of and you are going to hear user descriptions like "warm and fat" "crisp and clean", "bright and punchy"... These are all colors. The trick is finding a color that works for you.

Put it this way. Look at all the work we put into finding a bass with just the right tone to suit our style. We switch out pickups and preamps. We try dozens of string brands. We buy effects that sound cool to us. Heck, some of us even buy $100 cables, because we think they "sound better". So, with all this thought put into the rest of your signal chain, why should your amp be any different? It is just another part of your signal chain and it either gives you the sound you are looking for or it doesn't. Does it really matter what label you attach to it?
 
#38
seamonkey said:
I believe that anything sold in the "Bass" market is colored. Many times to a "Familiar" coloration for the manufacturer.
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Agreed. At the very least, very few bass speakers have anything approaching flat response down to the lowest fundamental. I think that's the primary coloration of bass amps. For the rest of the system, coloration can be designed out until it is below any likely threshold of audibility, so that it really boils down to a matter of what you want.
 
#39
fdeck said:
Agreed. At the very least, very few bass speakers have anything approaching flat response down to the lowest fundamental.
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Even if you disregard sub-100 Hz performance, full-range or 2-way bass cabs by most standards are pretty far away from flat, linear performance. This is especially noticeable off-axis, or if you are trying to EQ in an area that's especially un-even. Even the very best enclosures of other types can only approach within spitting distance, the accuracy that is common for non-speaker electronics - other than some bass guitar heads or preamps which often have a hidden default voicing either by design or accident.

I think that's the primary coloration of bass amps. For the rest of the system, coloration can be designed out until it is below any likely threshold of audibility, so that it really boils down to a matter of what you want.
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Yep. Horses for courses. But people who whine about pre- and post-EQ DI inequities would be wise to examine the issues more carefully (it gets old explaining that EQ for the rig cab doesn't work with the PA usually, which has an entirely different tonal profile), or start carrying the right mic for "their sound" and insisting upon its use.
 
#40
Hey, the best mike I've EVER heard for the human voice is the classic RCA 77DX, a 60-year-old ribbon mike. It definitely colors the voice, but at least for men, that coloration is ALL good.

Amps are no different - you use what you like, NOT what doesn't "color" the sound.

RCA-77DX.jpg
 

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