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Double Bass Should I be concerned about a luthier who asks me how much arco I do (board dressing issue)?

R

RBrownBass

Thoroughly Nice Guy
Aug 22, 2004
3,440
1,371
#1
I have an appointment for a minor dressing tomorrow, with a luthier recommended by my local music shop. I could tell him that I don't want the curvature of the board changed, but I kinda feel like I ought not have to do that. I know this guy hangs with 'grassers, and I've heard (no idea if true) that some of them play with a flatter radiused board. I do not want that, obviously.

<long rant> The reason for a redo: The board was dressed a couple of years ago by a Nashville luthier (I won't name the shop) who was highly recommended here, and I was somewhat disappointed in his work and very disappointed at some of the things he did to my bass (all reversible) while he had it. I had to go back a second time to clear up some buzzing he didn't get rid of the first time, and on that occasion, he moved the bridge rearward from its proper location, moved my soundpost back a bit so that it was kind of standing at an awkward angle, and the whole bass sounded thin until I carefully repositioned the post. Also, he didn't put my endpin back where I had it secured so that it was aligned properly with the centerline of the bass. And when I asked him about the afterlengths, using a formula I read about here, he tried to play an "I know, but I'm not going to tell you- I'm just going to say that you're wrong" game with me. That alone will get you no more business from me. You CAN talk shop with me if you explain yourself and it won't take a lot of explaining. I have a 4/4 sized body with a 3/4 neck. A larger, longer body, with all of the difference below the bridge, which is why my tailpiece looked a bit off to him. But he didn't know the measurements and didn't seem interested in me telling him. I didn't get confrontational or anything, just paid him and took the bass home, put the endpin and soundpost and bridge back where they belonged. The bass did sound and play better. Anyhow, not dealing with that guy again. </rant>

So... am I wrong to be concerned about this next guy? If not, I'd like some recommendations for work in Nashville. All the names you know of. I don't want to reply to that part because it would give away the shop that first worked on my bass.

Thanks for any help you can offer.
 
#6
100% agree to be very clear, and annoyingly so, in order to get the results you want. I had an issue that perhaps I wasn't clear about with a local guy and now I'll need to get it fixed (meaning exactly as I want) for another 600 at a separate shop. Sorry you're having to question your luthier, but it's not a cheap process, so you might as well get exactly what you're looking for .
 
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#7
"How much arco do you do?" seems like a reasonable question if the person doesn't know you or your playing style. If they follow that question up with "...'cos I only know how to set up a bass for bluegrass players", then you have reason to be concerned.

Like Steven says, be clear about what you want and hopefully the luthier will be honest about whether they can help you...
 
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#8
A local to me and highly reputable luthier asked me that same question last year - the reason being my fingerboard is getting thin and he felt that there wasn't enough meat to have both a good curvature for arco and get the relief he felt it should have. So not having the dough for a new fingerboard, I had him do what was good for pizz.
Now that I'm practicing more arco, I'm see why I might want more curvature and thus a new FB.
 
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#10
Lee Moses said:
If you are looking west of Nashville, there's Wayne Holmes in Milan.
Click to expand...

Thanks! I'll check him out in the near future.

eh_train said:
"How much arco do you do?" seems like a reasonable question if the person doesn't know you or your playing style. If they follow that question up with "...'cos I only know how to set up a bass for bluegrass players", then you have reason to be concerned.

Like Steven says, be clear about what you want and hopefully the luthier will be honest about whether they can help you...
Click to expand...

Sure, but why on Earth would I want to ruin a bass to play one style of music? If I were a luthier and somebody asked me to flatten their board so they could play 'grass, I'd send them away.
 
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#11
There's no such animal as one setup and one set of strings that plays everything perfectly, and on a bass set up for 'grass you want more scoop in the board to allow low-tension strings to vibrate elliptically when pulled sideways.

For legit, and jazz pizz where you push the string toward the board rather than parallel to it, you can get away with a flatter camber because the string tends to vibrate in a nearly perfect figure eight.

My rule of thumb is that I only pay someone to work on my bass if I can't do the job myself. Shooting a fingerboard is hard. If you don't get a satisfactory consultation, walk.
 
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#12
KUNGfuSHERIFF said:
...on a bass set up for 'grass you want more scoop in the board to allow low-tension strings to vibrate elliptically when pulled sideways.

For legit, and jazz pizz where you push the string toward the board rather than parallel to it, you can get away with a flatter camber because the string tends to vibrate in a nearly perfect figure eight.

My rule of thumb is that I only pay someone to work on my bass if I can't do the job myself. Shooting a fingerboard is hard. If you don't get a satisfactory consultation, walk.
Click to expand...

I stand enlightened, but at the same time, does this not (somewhat) ruin the board for legit and classical?
 
#14
RBrownBass said:
.....but I kinda feel like I ought not have to do that...
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Luthiers are not mid readers; they are technicians. The best way for them to be able to setup your bass the way you want it is for you to communicate exactly what it is you think you want and what is the end result you are looking for. Did you play the bass for them beforehand so they could observe your technique and style of music? When you picked up your bass did you play it extensively before you left- the whole range of the instrument and variety of styles that are important to you? Were you pleasant and relaxed or did you put out an uptight energy towards the shop and person you were working with? As with most things in life, a happy experience in typically goes a long way towards an happy outcome, and being a @!#$%^&* usually winds up with some of that coming back to you....Most luthiers I know go out of their way to do as good a job as possible for their customers, and rarely does the compensation make up for all the years of training, crazy expensive tools and time they have invested.

Good luck with your bass. Randy Hunt is the bass guy at Dustin's shop- solid player, very good technician, and all around great fellow.
 
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#15
james condino said:
Luthiers are not mid readers; they are technicians. The best way for them to be able to setup your bass the way you want it is for you to communicate exactly what it is you think you want and what is the end result you are looking for. Did you play the bass for them beforehand so they could observe your technique and style of music?
Click to expand...

I did not; and it's because I wasn't asked. I took that as a signal that it wasn't necessary (This is my fourth bass; the first three were used and already set up). I did outline what I wanted and what sort of height I wanted to be able to get down to even if I didn't stay there.

When you picked up your bass did you play it extensively before you left- the whole range of the instrument and variety of styles that are important to you?
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I did, and I was convinced by the luthier that no more needed to be done. That wasn't my impression, and it's my own fault that I didn't ask for more at the time.

Were you pleasant and relaxed
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Very. In fact, I just went up and played some other basses while he worked. I didn't really think much of it until I played the bass at home and again the next day. I called back and rescheduled and it was fine after that until a couple of days ago. My real beefs were the post placement, the bridge placement and the endpin placement. And I didn't comment to him about those- I simply thanked him, took the bass back home and made things right. Now, stuff like that comes off to me like some kind of fratboy prank, and the exchange about the afterlengths (which was friendly, save his gaming) was the final straw.

or did you put out an uptight energy towards the shop and person you were working with?
Click to expand...

No, not at all. Not in gestures or voice. This guy has my bass on his table- I'm not going to say or do anything to upset him. He has no idea about how I feel, which is why I'm naming no one.

Most luthiers I know go out of their way to do as good a job as possible for their customers, and rarely does the compensation make up for all the years of training, crazy expensive tools and time they have invested.
Click to expand...

I get that. It's why I was so surprised.
 
#17
KUNGfuSHERIFF said:
Find another shop to work with.

If you hire a luthier, they work for you.

Don't squawk here. That does you no good.
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Not squawking, and I hate that you got that impression. There are posters in the thread asking legit questions of me and I will continue to answer those as long as they don't ask for names, which IS unfair.

The whole thread is about me finding another shop- the disclosure is why, which would have been asked eventually.

I appreciate your help. I 100% am not going to have 'grass scoop added to the board, as it isn't something I see myself doing anytime soon. I'm going to call off the appointment based on your advice and my gut.
 
#19
Nnick Lloyd has done the last couple of setups on my basses, which was years ago. He always asked me to play for him and watched closely as I did so. I asked for a flatter bridge curvature since I don't bow much and hate the "high D string syndrome", and I asked for a little more height on the G string so I could get under it with a lot of meat. Not sure what he did to my board in terms of amount of scoop, but it sings and doesn't buzz and it's held for many years, so.... I guess I got kind of spoiled by that experience.
 
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#20
Steven Ayres said:
Kaybass.com lists The Violin Shoppe on Old Hickory Blvd as a recommendation. I don't know anything about it myself, and would like to.
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The Violin Shop moved from Old Hickory to 8th Avenue several years ago. At one time David Harvey did their bass work but he left them to work for Gibson. I don't think they do any bass work anymore but I am possibly wrong about that.

Nashville Violins might be worth checking with as well. However, as with The Violin Shop, I don't think they do much with basses anymore.

Jim Ferguson, who is a great player and singer, used to do some quality work on the side. But again, I'm not certain if this is still the case.

Dustin's shop has become the go-to place for bass work. I think you'll find that most music shops in Nashville will steer you toward him.
 
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