Another synth pedal in that range to consider is the Meris Enzo. No computer editor, but it sure could use it. While fiddly, sound quality of the Enzo is top notch.
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Should I get the Source Audio C4?
- Thread starter Fynn
- Start date
Depends on your use. Tracking circuitry is not close to being musically useful, unless you're going for spacey pad sounds. I tried the C4 for a couple days after deciding to ditch my laptop synth rig (it was a lot of setup and tear down). The technology has not gotten past the "interesting for tweakers but unusable professionally" stage. I returned the C4 and went with a minilogue instead, haven't looked back.
I was debating one of these but since I just wanted a synth pedal for fun and not really needing one, I got a Keeley Synth-1 instead. If money was no object and I absolutely needed a synth pedal, I would totally get the C4.
I went through this exercise some time ago, trying to make synth sounds from my bass using pedals and filters are modulators, and really, I ended up selling all that stuff and bought a Moog. And now I am happy and can get some great synth sounds from a real synth. These days it's rare that I perform with it live, once in a while, and on those gigs I am not even playing bass, just synth and drum machine.
rsmith601
Commercial User
- Apr 14, 2009
- 4,461
- 8,356
- Disclosures
- CEO and Co-Founder, Source Audio
Creating sounds from scratch is challenging, but you don't need to do that anymore unless it's a hobby. There are over 3000 sounds that are sortable and searchable. Here are the C4 sounds sorted by likes:
Neuro Community by Source Audio
The Spectrum Filter pedal presets also work on the C4.
There is a notion in some of these posts that you need to be a computer geek or synthesis jockey to enjoy the C4. This is not really fair or accurate.. Browsing these sounds with your pedal is on the same order of general complexity as getting an account and posting on TB. Thousands of users do this daily. We have far more users who browse sounds than create them. If you want to learn synthesis, the C4 and Zach's video are great for that.
The fact that there are well over 3000 sounds made by hundreds of users for one pedal says something of the popularity and utility of this pedal.
Note, I am biased!!
Neuro Community by Source Audio
The Spectrum Filter pedal presets also work on the C4.
There is a notion in some of these posts that you need to be a computer geek or synthesis jockey to enjoy the C4. This is not really fair or accurate.. Browsing these sounds with your pedal is on the same order of general complexity as getting an account and posting on TB. Thousands of users do this daily. We have far more users who browse sounds than create them. If you want to learn synthesis, the C4 and Zach's video are great for that.
The fact that there are well over 3000 sounds made by hundreds of users for one pedal says something of the popularity and utility of this pedal.
Note, I am biased!!
Every now and then I come back to researching this topic because for years I have gotten my synth sounds via a Roland GK3B-equipped bass strung with piccolo strings and my GR33 guitar synth. This is my dedicated synth bass setup. The piccolo strings are the secret, as pitch to midi technology simply can't track the register of a standard bass well, with horrible latency results. For the most part, I've been happy with my results, though there will always be an adjustment to playing technique and there will always be as glitch here and there (Some patches are worse than others), and it's a lot to set up, fine tune, etc. So the beauty of pedals like the C4, Future Impact, SY-1, SY200, etc. is they don't rely on pitch to midi technology. But can they nail those true classic bass synth sounds we're looking for? In my case, I'm in a cover band and need those fat 80's synth bass sounds like the Mini Moog, DX7, etc. Most of these pedals I've heard are simply a blend of LFO with distortion of some sort. The C4 seems to be the exception, however, and having a strong community of users who took the time to create patches makes it all the more appealing (so I don't have to).
I had the Future Impact for a while, and sold it. For me, polyphony is pretty important, as it really couldn't handle quick octave "up and down" lines unless you completely muted your strings. (Think of how Boss's old OC2 would glitch when you sustained more than 1 note). The C4 is intriguing for me, because it looks like you can map the pedal with endless options for sounds, even polyphony, harmonies, sequences, etc. but it's definitely a deep dive pedal if you want to get the most out of it.
Anyway, I plan on taking the plunge and picking one up soon.
I had the Future Impact for a while, and sold it. For me, polyphony is pretty important, as it really couldn't handle quick octave "up and down" lines unless you completely muted your strings. (Think of how Boss's old OC2 would glitch when you sustained more than 1 note). The C4 is intriguing for me, because it looks like you can map the pedal with endless options for sounds, even polyphony, harmonies, sequences, etc. but it's definitely a deep dive pedal if you want to get the most out of it.
Anyway, I plan on taking the plunge and picking one up soon.
I am just starting to check out patches for my new C4. Very easy to use I like the software. But I have not found anything yet that I can use. For example my band plays the Chaka Khan tune Ain't Nobody. I can't find a patch that tracks the low octave in Eb. Bad Mamma Jamma is another tune. Boogie on reggae woman, Uptown Funk, Hot Sauce (Thomas Dolby) That sort of thing.
All the bass patches on the cloud seem to be made to be played on guitar. For bass there is so much latency and lack of attack that I have to mix in my bass quite high. Which is why I can't just move the line up an octave. How can I find the killer synth bass patches for this thing that have a quick attack and are actually usable? I don't know what to put into the search box that will give me just C4 bass player user patches. Can you guys help me?
All the bass patches on the cloud seem to be made to be played on guitar. For bass there is so much latency and lack of attack that I have to mix in my bass quite high. Which is why I can't just move the line up an octave. How can I find the killer synth bass patches for this thing that have a quick attack and are actually usable? I don't know what to put into the search box that will give me just C4 bass player user patches. Can you guys help me?
The C4 is great fun to play with, and I enjoyed making and matching synth sounds with it, but I don't use it live any more (or the Future Impact) for the same reason - I can't play classic synth bass lines on them because of the tracking, latency and octave.
I know technique, plucking position, strings, pickup and tone are factors, and I experimented with them and I think I have a pretty clean playing style. But just getting short notes and octave jumps to articulate is too hit and miss on the current tech. Where are the AI synth pedals?
Low Eb is pretty much out of range for any tracking or octave pedal.
Two patches I really liked on the C4 were made by Simon Francis. Source Audio featured them here:
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
The second one is easy to tweak for envelope. It does sound an octave lower, so I made my own version that sounded the same pitch as my bass so I could play in the right position and blend it with my bass.
I have gone back to octave - fuzz - envelope for synth sounds live as it's more reliable and tweakable. I don't want to edit sounds on the C4 mid-gig even with a tablet or phone.
I'm also looking at pedals that make synth-y tones at the same octave as the input. Fuzzes, 3 Leaf You're Doom, Iron Ether Subterranea, Broughton Synth Voice etc.
rsmith601
Commercial User
- Apr 14, 2009
- 4,461
- 8,356
- Disclosures
- CEO and Co-Founder, Source Audio
You may need to adjust the input level or the tracking. Some others here can offer guidance on this. The C4 can absolutely cover those sounds. I would go so far as to say that, at the moment, there are more funk bass cover players using the C4 than anything else. Phish covers BORW, and I have not seen a Phish cover band that does not use the C4 in a long time. Mike Gordon uses the C4 (and the Deep Impact too).
Thanks Roger. I'm full of admiration for your company's products including the C4. I think the C4 is the best in class for bass synth pedals currently. And I have no doubt that many players can make it work for them.
I have spent quite a lot of time with the editor tweaking input level and tracking parameters. For a while I ran the C4 with a gain pedal before it, then in the effect loop of a HX Stomp so that I could control the conditions for tracking precisely.
I think there are a couple of issues for me:
Legato octaves - every synth and octave pedal I have had struggles with these. Clearly there's not much to choose between the fundamental and 1st/2nd harmonics of these notes, leading to notes being ignored or triggering the wrong octave. Unfortunately these are common in synth bass lines because keyboard players use both hands to play octaves - see Ain't Nobody.
Playing detached octaves with some silence in between usually works, but that's not always the sound I want.
Short notes - BORM has lots of crisp short notes. It's challenging to get these to articulate consistently with the C4 (and other pedals). I've experimented with input level, tracking, eq before, compressor before etc.
I also find the C4 envelopes to be awkward to set. I wish there was separate control over ADSR. I appreciate you are limited by the available DSP, storage and the need to present a simple user interface. They do however allow for some nice morphing between envelope settings with a single knob or expression pedal.
I find it difficult to set the tracking up so that it still works when I'm playing live. At home, I can tinker for hours and get a result I like. Once I'm playing live, my level has crept up, my playing is scrappier, there's less dynamic range between quiet or short notes and long loud notes, and the result is the C4 tracking becomes messy. Without editing the patch mid-song, my only option is to kick it off.
I appreciate these issues may be my short-comings as a player or in setting up the pedal. However I find my OC2 is always bulletproof and very forgiving.
I have spent quite a lot of time with the editor tweaking input level and tracking parameters. For a while I ran the C4 with a gain pedal before it, then in the effect loop of a HX Stomp so that I could control the conditions for tracking precisely.
I think there are a couple of issues for me:
Legato octaves - every synth and octave pedal I have had struggles with these. Clearly there's not much to choose between the fundamental and 1st/2nd harmonics of these notes, leading to notes being ignored or triggering the wrong octave. Unfortunately these are common in synth bass lines because keyboard players use both hands to play octaves - see Ain't Nobody.
Playing detached octaves with some silence in between usually works, but that's not always the sound I want.
Short notes - BORM has lots of crisp short notes. It's challenging to get these to articulate consistently with the C4 (and other pedals). I've experimented with input level, tracking, eq before, compressor before etc.
I also find the C4 envelopes to be awkward to set. I wish there was separate control over ADSR. I appreciate you are limited by the available DSP, storage and the need to present a simple user interface. They do however allow for some nice morphing between envelope settings with a single knob or expression pedal.
I find it difficult to set the tracking up so that it still works when I'm playing live. At home, I can tinker for hours and get a result I like. Once I'm playing live, my level has crept up, my playing is scrappier, there's less dynamic range between quiet or short notes and long loud notes, and the result is the C4 tracking becomes messy. Without editing the patch mid-song, my only option is to kick it off.
I appreciate these issues may be my short-comings as a player or in setting up the pedal. However I find my OC2 is always bulletproof and very forgiving.
The chairman of the board (pedalboard that is ) is here. I like it.
I had just bought a Boss SY 300. This is the reason why I also bought a C4. Now that I'm watching it again I see he plays a lot of the lines Octave up. I have not gotten too deep into the SY 300. Most of it is not really usable for me but I get the impression it tracks and articulates better on the low notes than the C4 is that right?
I had just bought a Boss SY 300. This is the reason why I also bought a C4. Now that I'm watching it again I see he plays a lot of the lines Octave up. I have not gotten too deep into the SY 300. Most of it is not really usable for me but I get the impression it tracks and articulates better on the low notes than the C4 is that right?
I found a patch on the community burned it to a location on my pedal. I tweaked it a bit and I would like to save it. I don't see the Save or Save as and I'm afraid to move away from my page on the neuro desk top and lose my version of the patch. I did read the manual as much as my old brain can handle,but there is so much in there. I'm stuck LOL
Above the search bar it just says "Factory" What are you trying to tell me? Can you be clearer?
OK, I went through the first 20 pages of patches for the C4 and they were all useless. For the bass stuff super sluggish, tracking was terrible. If I play the bass line for Ain't Nobody it can't even handle the octaves and it is not capable to hit the low Eb either. My technique is pretty good, I have been playing bass for over 40 years. In that time i have developed a great sound on my instrument and I am able to musically connect with the listener and express myself. I have a 6 string and some nice pedals because I solo a lot and play heads and also chords. I have decided that the C4 gets in the way of all of that. It is just not for me. I also bought a Boss SY 300. Same thing even though that pedal seems to track better . But for me instead of spending hours on hours to dial in the sounds, I'd be better off practicing my instrument. Ill definitely sell the C4 , maybe I'll mess with the SY 300 a bit more but my hopes are not high.
Seems like you made your mind up, everything is not for everyone.
FWIW i find that if you play through your c4 in the higher registers of your bass (b on a string an up) and pitch shift to an octave or two down instead of up, you get really good tracking. Tracking is also dependant on what pickup you use (neck pup tracks better for me - less overtones), where you pluck the string (again close to neck better for me), what other pedals are in the chain, input gain and what settings you use for tracking on the pedal itself: faster/more accurate tracking and within which frequencies it should be focusing its tracking on (low B on bass up to 24th fret electric guitar).
I've tried a few patches where you pitch up from lower notes and I much prefer the opposite method to that. Ymmv.
Bottomline - all of these synth in a box machines are in my mind incredible, but you have to put a bit of effort into making the most of them.
I was going to sell both the C4 and the Boss SY 300. But I've checked out the sy300 some more and compared it to the c4. It seems the Boss allows you to play with more nuances and dynamics. Dynamics in the C4 seem very difficult to achieve in a natural way. The notes react to their own program and yes, there are some variations possible, but not fully remacting to the way you play. Unless you play super lighy, or super staccato or super hard or just long notes there doesn't seem to be much room in between on the C4.
Most patches I have tried (20 Pages at least) on it seem very sluggish so you have to kind of adjust and play ahead of the beat. I play a lot of tunes where I actually take care of the melody and I try to phrase like a singer on my bass. As far as I've seen that is impossible to do on the C4. Most of the User Patches are not made for the real world. And the factory patches are even worse.
There is a new Boss unit that is even better. More money, still, I might try it.
Most patches I have tried (20 Pages at least) on it seem very sluggish so you have to kind of adjust and play ahead of the beat. I play a lot of tunes where I actually take care of the melody and I try to phrase like a singer on my bass. As far as I've seen that is impossible to do on the C4. Most of the User Patches are not made for the real world. And the factory patches are even worse.
There is a new Boss unit that is even better. More money, still, I might try it.
