Should I mic the guitar amps or use HI-Z inputs?

[slightly_basic]

Hey everyone,
After learning some stuff about the mixer we just got, we figured out we would need to either mic up the amps and use one HI-Z input, or use 2 HI-Zs and a line-level input. We only have enough mics to mic up two of our 3 amps, and only one of them is an instrument mic. Do you guys think we should get a DI box for the line-level or just go with one HI-Z?
Thanks!

 

[silky smoove]

First-off, which mixer are you using? Secondly, a DI box does not connect to a line level input. Thirdly, plugging a guitar straight into a hi-z input works from an impedance perspective, but the guitarist is usually unhappy sonically unless an amp sim is then added and a post AD monitoring solution is added AND is sufficiently low latency to not throw off their timing.

Basically more information on what you're trying to do is needed to give you a more detailed response.

 

[slightly_basic]

I'm using a Mackie ProFx12v3. I thought I read somewhere a DI box would give me that, I guess not. Do you think I could get away with playing bass into the hi-z and having both guitarists get mic'd up, or should I invest in another mic?

 

[Paulabass]

You didn't mention what the 3 amps are.
Electric guitar, MIC IT! The line outs on electric gtr. amps sound terrible.
Acoustic guitar amp, use the XLR out straight to mixer.
Bass amp, use a direct box.

 

[silky smoove]

Do you think I could get away with playing bass into the hi-z and having both guitarists get mic'd up

This is a pretty ideal setup in most cases. Bass will sound fine into the hi-z in the vast majority of situations, maybe with a little EQ. Mic up the guitar amps and you're all set.

 

[slightly_basic]

Rhythm guitar uses a 20w Peavey Vypyr, lead uses a 40w Peavey Vypyr, they both have a bunch of like built in effects and poopie. I have a Fender Rumble 25. I have a focusrite 4i4, is that what you mean by direct box? And the reason I ask hi-z is because we need a mic for the drummer, and another for each guitar amp so we are missing one microphone.

EDIT: am I really not allowed to say poopie lmao

 

[Wasnex]

Rhythm guitar uses a 20w Peavey Vypyr, lead uses a 40w Peavey Vypyr, they both have a bunch of like built in effects and poopie. I have a Fender Rumble 25. I have a focusrite 4i4, is that what you mean by direct box? And the reason I ask hi-z is because we need a mic for the drummer, and another for each guitar amp so we are missing one microphone.

EDIT: am I really not allowed to say poopie lmao

The 4i4 is an audio interface. You can plug a bass straight into one of the channels with instrument input capability. However, I suspect you will want to be able to play through your amp so the group can hear you acoustically.

A DI typically has a 1/4" in and a 1/4" thru that are essentially a Y connection. The DI will also have an XLR out that goes to a mixer or an audio interface like your 4i4. The Radial StageBug series is compact and relatively affordable. Consider an SB1 (active) or SB2 (passive).

If you have a Y cable you could run one side to your amp and the other to the 4i4. If you do not have a Y cable, you can use a DI. Plug into the DI and run the thru to your amp; then patch the XLR to your 4i4. Active DIs require phantom power and passive DIs do not.

You could also mic your little Rumble, which will give a different sound.

As you mentioned you also need a mic for the drums. Normally you would probably use at least two mics on drums. One in the bass drum and one over head. I usually prefer at least four. Bass drum, snare, and stereo over heads. With one mic you will have to experiment with where to aim the mic to get a good representation of the entire drum set....not as easy as you might think.

So depending upon how you go about it, you need 1 or 2 mics and maybe a DI. This is if you insist on recording everything at once

Another approach would be to lay down a scratch recording with the mics you have, and then rerecord individual tracks with people using headphones. This would allow you to use all of your mics on the drums. This may work even better if you have the ability to lay down a separate click track that is only heard through the headphones. Whether you can do this or not depends upon the software you are using to record and edit.

Mics come in both high Z and low Z. High Z mics will have a 1/4" plug and low Z mic will have an XLR connector. IMHO, if you decide to buy a mic(s), go with low Z.

 

[Tosh]

Your mixer has 7 mic inputs, 2 of which also support HiZ inputs. You have all the inputs you require, at least from what I can see. Just snag an affordable dynamic mic (or 3) and you are done.

BTW I plug my bass straight to the board - much cleaner than micing a cabinet

 

[morgansterne]

here's my suggestion:
gather as a band the same way you'd rehearse.
Use all your mics to record the drums. Everyone plays but only the drums get recorded. Plug two mics into the XLR inputs of your focusrite. These preamps are great sounding, probably better than your other mixer.
if you have more mics, plug them into the other mixer. One channel panned hard right, one channel panned hard left. Use the Left and Right line outputs of your mixer into the back of the focusrite.

Overdub everyone else later, one or two at a time.
Don't worry about whether they are vocal or instrument mics. Just get the best ones you can lay your hands on.

 

[slightly_basic]

The 4i4 is an audio interface. You can plug a bass straight into one of the channels with instrument input capability. However, I suspect you will want to be able to play through your amp so the group can hear you acoustically.

A DI typically has a 1/4" in and a 1/4" thru that are essentially a Y connection. The DI will also have an XLR out that goes to a mixer or an audio interface like your 4i4. The Radial StageBug series is compact and relatively affordable. Consider an SB1 (active) or SB2 (passive).

If you have a Y cable you could run one side to your amp and the other to the 4i4. If you do not have a Y cable, you can use a DI. Plug into the DI and run the thru to your amp; then patch the XLR to your 4i4. Active DIs require phantom power and passive DIs do not.

You could also mic your little Rumble, which will give a different sound.

As you mentioned you also need a mic for the drums. Normally you would probably use at least two mics on drums. One in the bass drum and one over head. I usually prefer at least four. Bass drum, snare, and stereo over heads. With one mic you will have to experiment with where to aim the mic to get a good representation of the entire drum set....not as easy as you might think.

So depending upon how you go about it, you need 1 or 2 mics and maybe a DI. This is if you insist on recording everything at once

Another approach would be to lay down a scratch recording with the mics you have, and then rerecord individual tracks with people using headphones. This would allow you to use all of your mics on the drums. This may work even better if you have the ability to lay down a separate click track that is only heard through the headphones. Whether you can do this or not depends upon the software you are using to record and edit.

Mics come in both high Z and low Z. High Z mics will have a 1/4" plug and low Z mic will have an XLR connector. IMHO, if you decide to buy a mic(s), go with low Z.

This had a lot of really useful information, thank you! I'd just like to ask at this point, considering that we have 3 mics, 2 focusrite audioboxes, and the mackie profx12v3 mixer, what more do I need to buy to record the whole band at once with decent audio quality? I'm looking at the stagebug passive box, it seems like a good investment but I'm not quite sure.

EDIT: Forgot to mention we have 2 guitarists, one of them on vocals, me on bass, and a drummer.

 

[_One//Man//Mutiny_]

I can confirm the sound of the line out on guitar amps are terrible. I would say definitely mic the cab, or at least get a d.i. Box that has an amp sim
For very very cheap and get usable sound
Pyle makes an sm57 tranformerless clone for $12, it actually sounds sweet considering the ultra cheap price
Donner makes a purple D.I. Box that has a 4x12 cab sim that works like a charm instead of coming out of the back of the amp. You can find these for about $20
Good luck!

 

[Wasnex]

This had a lot of really useful information, thank you! I'd just like to ask at this point, considering that we have 3 mics, 2 focusrite audioboxes, and the mackie profx12v3 mixer, what more do I need to buy to record the whole band at once with decent audio quality? I'm looking at the stagebug passive box, it seems like a good investment but I'm not quite sure.

EDIT: Forgot to mention we have 2 guitarists, one of them on vocals, me on bass, and a drummer.

It really depends on what your goals are. For example, you could use one mic for the lead singer and then use the other two mics to capture entire the band.

 

[bmusic]

I think that Mackie has a Hi-Z instrument input on one channel, so you wouldn't need as direct box.

 

[Tosh]

Seems that you need 2 more mics.
1 for lead guitar cab, 1 for lead guitar cab, one for vocalist, one for kick drum, and one placed over the drums (the over-head).

My opinion is that you will need at least 3 mics on the drums to get what could pass for a "decent" sound. Give strong consideration to what morgansterne suggested - overdub parts after the drums are tracked.

 

[4stringfarley]

Home recording I prefer line in then messing around with diff. amp sims. Running a 5150 at high gain at the perfect break up isnt a viable option in my little rental space at 3 am. I will however run them through a tube pre amp first for the natural warmth. Get the band to play together while recording the drums, then go back and over dub the bass, rhythm, then lead guitars.

 

[-Asdfgh-]

You need to go through a cabinet simulator, at least. I've done guitars direct through one and it's fine. But if you are going into the digital domain I'd suggest just splitting the signal from the guitars and take that totally dry to the Hi-Z and take a line out from the bass amp. You can then process the sound later with free or cheap amp simulator plugins or reamp each one in turn using one of the microphones you do have.

 

[-Asdfgh-]

Home recording I prefer line in then messing around with diff. amp sims. Running a 5150 at high gain at the perfect break up isnt a viable option in my little rental space at 3 am. I will however run them through a tube pre amp first for the natural warmth. Get the band to play together while recording the drums, then go back and over dub the bass, rhythm, then lead guitars.

If you do that, make sure you get good rejection of the guitars and bass in the drum microphones, as otherwise you might be able to hear differences between the overdubs and the original. It's the overheads that would be the tricky issue, but with three microphones I'd imagine you'd be using bass drum, snare/hi-hat and one overhead so if you angle the overhead from in front of the kit so the guitars are in the deadest spot of the cardoid pattern and put deadening material to stop early reflections from the back wall then it should be OK. I normally go for four microphones (two overheads) for some stereo image, but three microphones is the 'classic' method and you can still pan a bit for some stereo sound and with less concerns about phasing/comb filtering between one of the overheads and anything else. I've been in amateur sessions where there have been 8+ mics on the drums but I could never be bothered myself! But when I started out I had a four track and four mics, so the four microphone option was a good fit.

But as noted above, if you have the inputs you can record the other instruments direct via a split and reamp later. Remember to take into account latency when reamping if you are going digital.

 

[mcnach]

Hey everyone,
After learning some stuff about the mixer we just got, we figured out we would need to either mic up the amps and use one HI-Z input, or use 2 HI-Zs and a line-level input. We only have enough mics to mic up two of our 3 amps, and only one of them is an instrument mic. Do you guys think we should get a DI box for the line-level or just go with one HI-Z?
Thanks!

If you're going to DI the guitars, they will not sound good unless there's some amp/speaker simulation going on too. The good news is that today, even the cheapest multiFX will have some kind of simulation. One of my bandmates uses an old Zoom unit direct to desk live and it works very well. There's also units like the Joyo American Sound pedal (they do other flavours too) which simulates some kind of Fender amp and it sounds really good DI'd, and it's only $40 or so. I bought one as an overdrive pedal that works well on bass, but I absolutely love it on guitar: I set it cleanish, and use an additional pedal (OCD clone) for overdrive before it, and it sounds really nice.

 

[InhumanResource]

Hey everyone,
After learning some stuff about the mixer we just got, we figured out we would need to either mic up the amps and use one HI-Z input, or use 2 HI-Zs and a line-level input. We only have enough mics to mic up two of our 3 amps, and only one of them is an instrument mic. Do you guys think we should get a DI box for the line-level or just go with one HI-Z?
Thanks!

The simplest thing in my experience is to mic everything except bass and keyboard. I have run a mic on my bass rig plenty of times when I didn't like what the DI was providing or just didn't have DI available for whatever reason. You don't need to go fancy with mics unless you want to

 

[MultiScaleMale]

Your mixer has 7 mic inputs, 2 of which also support HiZ inputs. You have all the inputs you require, at least from what I can see. Just snag an affordable dynamic mic (or 3) and you are done.

BTW I plug my bass straight to the board - much cleaner than micing a cabinet

Are we looking at the same mixer? I only see four mic inputs. Six of the unbalanced inputs are three L/R to increase the number of "input counts" that can be advertised.