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Double Bass Should left hand thumb be bent or straight?

AndreyR

AndreyR

Apr 7, 2008
138
6
Brooklyn, New York
#1
I've been studying with Teacher 1, and recently decided to take lessons with Teacher 2, both are orchestra professionals and have been teaching before I was born. The first teacher says the left hand thumb should be bent while playing (in the first few positions, for example open, 3rd), and teacher 2 says I should not bend my left hand thumb while playing (in the first few positions, for example open, 4th).

How do you hold your left hand thumb while playing, and why?

Bent
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Straight
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#2
I think both are correct. Some prefer the bent thumb others the more straight thumb. It doesn't really matter as long as it feels relaxed and you can do some pivoting.
I prefer the more straight thumb since I play classical guitar and electric bass 20+ years. The bent thumb feels very awkward and unnatural to me.
 
#5
No teacher ever told me to hold it straight or bent. They never talked about it. Maybe because I already have a natural grip from classical guitar and electric bass. It is more or less the same grip. I agree with Andrew; it doesn't really matter as long as it feels relaxed.
Also everyone's physics are different. What might work for someone (including your teacher) might not work for you.
 
#6
+1 on the thumb being opposite the 2nd finger. Another +1 on the thumb not doing any work. You should be able to play a scale without your thumb touching the neck. (Not that you want to do that a lot.)

Wrap your thumb and fingers around a Pops rosin container with your thumb and second finger pointing at each other. That basic position will keep you from getting tendonitis when you start practicing 10 hours a day. :-)
 
#7
I have always naturally played with a flat thumb. I tried the curved thumb and found that it forced my fingers to curve past the point of comfort. I found that for me, using a flat thumb allows for a slightly straighter curve in the left hand fingers and that the curved thumb produced a more pronounced curve. Perhaps it depends on the size/length of the players hand and instrument as well. Having smaller hands I need the full extension of the fingers that the flat thumb allows. Perhaps someone with longer fingers or a thin neck would be more comfortable by using the curved thumb.
One other thing comes to mind. We learn to use curved left hand fingers to avoid collapsing the fingers and losing leverage. Since the thumb has only one knuckle the idea of collapse has to be reconsidered. What do you guys think?
 
#8
The Portnoi book I just read said to have the thumbprint on the back of the neck.

I try to use and teach that your hand should be as relaxed as possible. I teach my students (and remind myself from time to time) to make a fist then relax you hand.

On my hand, the thumb falls between the index and middle with the thumbprint falling on the first knuckle of the middle finger when in the fist. When relaxed, the hand makes a "C" shape and the thumb is directly opposite the corner of my fingernail beside the index, of the the middle finger.

That's my $0.02.
 
#9
The ability to bend the thumb backward is -- apparently -- a genetic characteristic not shared by all people. There is such a thing called "hitchhiker's thumb", in which the thumb can bend back, past 45 degrees, almost to a right angle. Jaco Pastorius had this condition (judging from a picture I remember from the famous Downbeat interview with him back in the 70's.) I've got the condition, too. I'm just now coming back to double bass after a significant hiatus (almost a year), and the thumb issue is a big one. I keep telling myself that the degree to which my thumb hurts is the degree to which I've gotta improve my thumb-free technique. Right now it hurts a little bit.

I learned about this through a thread here on TalkBass. It's in the database somewhere....
 
#11
80'sRocker said:
let the thumb "float" where it is most comfortable for your tastes
Click to expand...

Agreed. No two hands are the same and what works for one may not work for the others. Traditionally, it was taught that the thumb should be adjacent to the middle finger but there are those who feel that it should be placed between the middle/fore-finger. Forcing yourself to play a certain way could result in long term problems and injury. Just study the left hands of a number of different players and you will see differences for sure.
 
#12
Dear ladies and gentlemen, thank you for all your comments and thoughts. I will take a note of all the suggestions, especially the "float your thumb" idea. Although since I've been playing this beautiful instrument for only 2 years with lots of big breaks, I can't agree that you can play without your thumb, it has to do a little bit of work, at least for me to make a good tone. Please keep your ideas coming.
 
#13
Ah, but you can play without your thumb doing work!

The trick is, the stop force comes from the weight of your arm... so if you can't relax your thumb all the way, you have excess tension somewhere else, probably in your neck or shoulder. To visualise this, think about just dropping your hand through the string. Now let the string get in the way, and that's how you do it.
 
#14
AndreyR said:
I can't agree that you can play without your thumb, it has to do a little bit of work, at least for me to make a good tone. Please keep your ideas coming.
Click to expand...

Think about what your left hand does when you are playing the 2nd octave Bb major scale. Say you're doing it with whole notes played slowly

When you get to the point where your 4th finger is on the F, you roll your thumb from behind the neck and place it on the string, getting ready to slide it down to the G. While you're doing this, your thumb isn't doing any work. You are supporting the bass with other parts of your body and it is your arm and shoulder that is holding the string against the fingerboard.
 
#15
I teach my students to make a "C", and also to think of gripping a baseball or grapefruit (depending on age and hand size) really tightly. This means curving the thumb and keeping it opposite the second finger in neck positions. While not intuitive to beginners, this maximizes clamping pressure without inhibiting finger spread. Straight or curved, if your thumb is higher than your second finger, your ability to stretch out your fingers properly will be comprimised. Furthermore, curving the thumb ultimately provides better strength and flexibility. I agree that the force applied to the strings should come more from the arm than from the thumb, but clamping strength in the hand is also very important.

Also, I wish people would stop saying "use the weight of your arm". Hearing or reading it grates my nerves as badly as when news commentators say "reaching a crescendo". Weight is a downward force.
 
#16
robobass said:
Also, I wish people would stop saying "use the weight of your arm". Hearing or reading it grates my nerves as badly as when news commentators say "reaching a crescendo". Weight is a downward force.
Click to expand...

Yeah, it seems to me it's more the involvement of shoulder and back muscles than weight. With the Laborie endpin, it is possible to use some arm weight, as the angle of the neck is more horizontal.
 
#17
Either thumb position will work as long as you are consistent with the hand position. Example: place your 1st finger (G string) on the harmonic d and examine the distance the thumb is from the curvature of the neck. Because of the variants in carving, this will vary from bass to bass. Once you note this, you will have a solid 4th pos., D position or H - for harmonic position. What ever you call it. Now, move the 1st finger to Eb and check the relationship of the thumb and 1st finger. I called this the P or pinch position. Now move to the E and again note the relationship. I call this the 'corkscrew' position due to the curve between the 1st finger and thumb in the curve.
Once you have established these 3, you can leap to any notes covered - D to G - up there with confidence but be consistent with the THUMB and its rel.to the curve.
Tom Gale
ASODB.com
(p.s. - I cover all this in my Practical Studies)
 
#18
What do you get when you let your shoulder go free with your arm out in front of you? Your arm wants to drop down by your side.

Now, if you just hold your arm in the correct shape with a free-to-rotate shoulder, you can translate that leverage into stop force.

That's what I mean by 'use the weight of your arm'. Yes the weight itself is a downward force, but your body is a collection of pivots and levers that you can use to translate that force into a whole variety of different directions.
 
#19
Tom Gale said:
Either thumb position will work as long as you are consistent with the hand position. Example: place your 1st finger (G string) on the harmonic d and examine the distance the thumb is from the curvature of the neck. Because of the variants in carving, this will vary from bass to bass. Once you note this, you will have a solid 4th pos., D position or H - for harmonic position. What ever you call it. Now, move the 1st finger to Eb and check the relationship of the thumb and 1st finger. I called this the P or pinch position. Now move to the E and again note the relationship. I call this the 'corkscrew' position due to the curve between the 1st finger and thumb in the curve.
Once you have established these 3, you can leap to any notes covered - D to G - up there with confidence but be consistent with the THUMB and its rel.to the curve.
Tom Gale
ASODB.com
(p.s. - I cover all this in my Practical Studies)
Click to expand...

Tom,
I really don't understand your post at all, but certainly disagree with the first sentence. On the most basic level, I see lots of novice players with their thumbs up high totally killing themselves by trying to gain finger pressure on the string by torquing the wrist. Keeping the thumb down under the second finger prevents this deadly tendancy. Maybe for more advanced players who play very low action this is less of an issue, but I hold that even then it is still important. I haven't ever really paid attention to the left thumbs of my colleagues or the great soloists, but I bet most of them keep their thumbs low. Youtube videos will tell!
 

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