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Show Us Your Rob Allen Basses Part II
- Thread starter Mark Wilson
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Rob sent me an email today letting me know that he'll have pics of tops for me to pick out tomorrow. It's getting closer . . .
Here's a snippet of the song "Moten Swing" using my fretless Deep 4 (through a Polytone Mini S15) with a big band last Sunday.
As a comparison, I've also attached part of "Night and Day" which I played on my fretless P ('78 rosewood neck, '76 body).
The RA is definitely more woody/upright-y than the P, but they both work.
For the RA settings I did have the wooly knob turned down a bit and the treble/clicky knob a bit up to get a bit more of a hollow sound.
Both basses have Rotosound RS88 nylon tapewound strings (RA is strung 75-100-115-135 and the P 65-75-100-115).
As a comparison, I've also attached part of "Night and Day" which I played on my fretless P ('78 rosewood neck, '76 body).
The RA is definitely more woody/upright-y than the P, but they both work.
For the RA settings I did have the wooly knob turned down a bit and the treble/clicky knob a bit up to get a bit more of a hollow sound.
Both basses have Rotosound RS88 nylon tapewound strings (RA is strung 75-100-115-135 and the P 65-75-100-115).
I dig the Deep4 tone more, but I'd maybe try the other way, with the treble rolled off a bit and a tad more bass. And also maybe pluck a bit closer to the neck. I feel like it wants a bit more low end "thud" and fatness with the notes.
I miss playing with a big band...
I miss playing with a big band...
I actually play on the lower part of the neck or just to the right of the fretboard with "the claw".
You may be right to some degree, but intially I had it too wooly when I was figuring out my sound out there. Part of the problem with more bass is that if you make it too wooly, by the time it hits the crowd in the back, it gets muddy. The RA can be almost too wooly in that context and you lose some definition. I had the same problem with the TB10. To me this is where a P just works. Very rarely do I have to futz with any P (Rob's, my 60s, or either of my two 70s) to get it to sit right anywhere.
One thing I learned long ago - a studio/sitting in your house tone is different than it is in context of a band and a venue due to the way sound travels and mixes. And it's not like I had a way to hear how it sounded further back.
My mic (this isn't a soundboard recording) was right at the front of the band so sound didn't have far to travel ...
In retrospect maybe the Ampeg B-15 would have been a better choice, but that night wasn't the night to schlep it.
Understood, and I didn't know where the mic was. I agree that in general I dial down the low bass with my Deep 5, but I don't boost the treble at all. One solution to the definition is that I'll drop bass, and boost a bit of low mid and hi mid at the amp. The other, which I used in the recording above, was running an FEA Labs dual band comp. I set the crossover around 250hz, and had the low side with a bit lower threshold and ration. You also have independent levels so you can use that to "drive" the hi side a bit. What you end up with is a tight low end (ie tame the wool) and mids/highs that speak.
By contrast I run my Zon flat and the amp flat and it cuts just fine. But the *feel* and ability to really work the RA speaks to me more, so I'm willing to do some tweaks to make it work in "odd" situations (like the funk band). For jazz gigs I just do a bit of eq and call it good.
By contrast I run my Zon flat and the amp flat and it cuts just fine. But the *feel* and ability to really work the RA speaks to me more, so I'm willing to do some tweaks to make it work in "odd" situations (like the funk band). For jazz gigs I just do a bit of eq and call it good.
My amps all just have volume, bass, and treble. Anything else is extraneous
The good thing about Rob's basses is that you can get a range of sounds, but you need to know what you're going for so it sits in the mix the way you want it to.For more traditional jazz, I would agree that the RA just has a great sound. I wish I could put the neck of my fretless P on it, though lol
My one gripe with Rob's basses (including the Solid 4) is that the fretboards are pretty much flat with no radius. My P neck is just more comfortable to play. It's a minor difference but noticeable in terms of how the instrument feels in my hands.
Well, I don't have any 4s - I have a Mouse on order though as an experiment. But I *love* the neck on my Deep 5. My Zon is flatter and "faster" but I enjoy the feel of the RA more. I wasn't as thrilled with my MB-2 which was older and had a beefier neck.
Beefy is better - thin is bad (at least for me). I tend to like necks that are a bit more hunk-o-wood. Both my RAs are based on my fretted P neck, just not the fretboard. So the feel is sorta there.
Since I'm posting, here's another of the Deep 4. It's the solo section of an original tune which will be on my next CD. It's a rough mix with no final EQ and such. It's just the D4 direct - no amp. I may re-amp with my B-15 to give it a bit more "air".
i haven't read through all the threads but do you think there's a big tonal difference between the woods. particularly on the fretted models? im going to be saving up for one of these and im leaning toward koa but i've seen some nice walnut here. and does he only offer maple, walnut or koa?
The differences in the woods are subtle. Depending on how picky you are with tone, it could be a total non-issue or it could make a difference. A Rob Allen sounds like a Rob Allen though, pretty much regardless of wood choices. You can get top woods other than maple, walnut and koa - just depends on what Rob has and what you want. Those three are the "stock" choices though.
The best bet is to tell Rob what your tone goals are and let him pick a body/top/neck combination. I actually deviated a bit from his advice though with my Mouse 30f, mostly due to look. I don't have it yet so I can't say if I made a mistake
On a semi-related note, I'm now 2 months into Deep 5 ownership. Not sure how long honeymoons are supposed to last, but I love this bass more every day and frankly am playing it almost to the exclusion of my other instruments. I have to be dragged kicking and screaming to pick up my Zon fretted, and my poor Lightwave hasn't seen much love at all (though I need to have some work done to it). The only time I switch away from the RA is when I absolutely have to have a fretted tone, and I'm finding that number is shrinking rapidly as I learn the D5 more and am able to use some compression to make it work where it shouldn't.
I'm interested to get the fretted Mouse and see how that goes...
The best bet is to tell Rob what your tone goals are and let him pick a body/top/neck combination. I actually deviated a bit from his advice though with my Mouse 30f, mostly due to look. I don't have it yet so I can't say if I made a mistake
On a semi-related note, I'm now 2 months into Deep 5 ownership. Not sure how long honeymoons are supposed to last, but I love this bass more every day and frankly am playing it almost to the exclusion of my other instruments. I have to be dragged kicking and screaming to pick up my Zon fretted, and my poor Lightwave hasn't seen much love at all (though I need to have some work done to it). The only time I switch away from the RA is when I absolutely have to have a fretted tone, and I'm finding that number is shrinking rapidly as I learn the D5 more and am able to use some compression to make it work where it shouldn't.
I'm interested to get the fretted Mouse and see how that goes...
What is wrong with your Solid 4? And the Deep 4? You going to a fretted Deep4?
I'm thinking of a fretted MB-2 5....I'm sick.
I would get another fretless Deep 4 but made differently than my original one. I think I've owned mine for 6 or 7 years (at this point ... don't remember) and after playing it a lot and other basses, I've come to a point where I really know what I want from a bass like a Deep to make it what I want/need it to be.
Technically nothing is wrong with the Soild 4 or Deep 4. If I get another Deep 4, I won't need the one I have and with two fretted P basses already along with a fretless P, the Solid 4 is nice, but I'd rather sell to fund a newer Deep 4. It'd be a bit sad to see both go as not only were they both the first of the Deep and Solid lines to roll out of Rob's shop, they're great basses.
The Solid 4 I have has a GREAT neck on it. Wonderful to play. Can't say enough about it.
What would you do differently? Seems the main difference with the current basses is that the necks are a bit thinner, but that is for the 5-strings - dont' know about the 4s. I pondered a used Solid 4 that was on the market awhile back. I've been on 5s so long though, not sure it'll work. The Mouse will be my fretted 4 experiment.
Here is something that I highly recommend for the Deep if you want to tighten your tone and get some flexibility:
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Here is something that I highly recommend for the Deep if you want to tighten your tone and get some flexibility:
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Well, if you're interested in the S4, PM me and we can chat.
Thanks for the recommendation, but having owned the Deep for as long as I have, what I want is not a tighter tone or flexibility via a pedal. I want something close to what I have, yet very different. A thinner neck is NOT what I want. At all. Ever.
Some of my current asks for the potential new Deep 4:
1. The ability to play it in an upright position. Not looking to bow, but the ability to mount it in an upright position. This came out of owning the Takamine. I liked having the option of playing it like a standard bass guitar or upright-like.
2. A 34" scale bass with 21 frets like a P. No extra frets.
3. Unlike my current Deep 4, an unlined fretless neck (but keeping the dots on the side). That comes from playing my fretless P a lot.
4. A radiused fretboard on top like a P. Not flat or close to it like Rob does. Since I've been playing both the fretless P and the Deep 4 a lot as of late and the P is infinitely easier and more comfortable due to fretboard. Both the S4 and D4 I have now are almost flat, which are OK, but not as comfortable for me.
5. As with the S4 and D4 before them, the neck width/thickness itself would be a copy of my P neck (or my new fretless P neck which is nearly identical to my fretted P). This is nothing new, but standard on anything for me.
6. So I don't have to put anything extra, a bit more body to the bridge so the action is higher.
7. Both a mag (same as in the S4) and a piezo, each with individual tone and volume controls.
8. The Takamine I owned had a more upright-y sound largely in part to its construction. Rob and I talked about having thinner walls inside the body to get more of that sound on the Deep. I had originally asked for a deeper Deep.
Interesting. You do have a specific set of criteria, and sounds like Rob could easily make a custom to fit all of those. From what I've seen the 4 and 5 necks have different shapes, so I can't comment on the 4s. Coming from my Zons, the RA actually has a beefier neck (though not too much), but the new one fits my hand better than the old profile which was a bit thicker.
One thing I would think about changing would be getting rid of the tone controls on the top of the bridge. I can't damp the bridge when I use a pick...which I never do but now am messing around with after watching Bobby Vega on youtube.
I'm with you on unlined - I won't ever own a lined neck. As for the radius, whatever Rob does with the 5 neck works fine for me. But I'm not trying to match a P-bass...I understand the desire to have your instruments have a similar feel. That is one reason I'm thinking of getting a fretted MB-2 5-string to go along with the Deep 5 rather than switching to the Zon. I've thought about the mag thing as well...especially on the fretted.
One thing I would think about changing would be getting rid of the tone controls on the top of the bridge. I can't damp the bridge when I use a pick...which I never do but now am messing around with after watching Bobby Vega on youtube.
I'm with you on unlined - I won't ever own a lined neck. As for the radius, whatever Rob does with the 5 neck works fine for me. But I'm not trying to match a P-bass...I understand the desire to have your instruments have a similar feel. That is one reason I'm thinking of getting a fretted MB-2 5-string to go along with the Deep 5 rather than switching to the Zon. I've thought about the mag thing as well...especially on the fretted.
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