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Silvertone 1483?

Seeing this made me smile. It looks so much like my 1966 Silvertone Twin Twelve guitar amp. All my original tubes still work except the reverb doesn't sound right. The whole thing still plays, but I'm afraid to turn it on, scared it will catch fire, lol.

Anyway, good luck with the project.
 
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The reverb on Danelectros was always a bit weird, and did not sound like the reverb we all expect. The fact that it does not work "quite right" may just be the way it sounds.

I have decided I am not going to hack into this amp. I will of course have the amp fully serviced: new electrolytics and a full check-up. I will also be change the speaker and tubes, packing the originals away for safe keeping. Once I am done there, we will see how she sounds and go from there...
 
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Or...keep it basically as is (after a cap job), and use it just for guitar as it was intended :hiding:

Believe it or not, those old Silvertones are highly sought after these days...why butcher it up?

Exactly! Like I said earlier they do sound fabulous for guitar and do bring back the warm fuzzies as that was my first amp. They did use a Bassman transformer to replace my guitarist's when he had his caps/tubes, etc changed out. They also put a jack/plug on the cable which normally is hard-wired to the open back speaker. It would be interesting to try the head with some bass cabs that could make it better for recording. I've used an 8? watt Dano amp that was great for some 'power' guitar tracks, much like a Champ.
 
I had one of those amps back in the early 60's. It never was any good for bass due to the cabinet design. I wound up using mine for acoustic guitar. Note amp an I on the right:

bandinthe60s.jpg
 
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^^^ Great photo!


> Numbers mean nothing.

Numbers mean everything. Or maybe I should say, they mean different things to different people.

I have one of these old Silvertone amps in the Twin Twelve format. I have never even considered plugging a bass into it.

The amp was designed to be an inexpensive, power-limited and bandwidth-limited guitar amp. It was designed with deliberate compromises in mind. It's one of the last amps that you could buy where PTP wiring was used because it was the cheap way to build an amp. Things have changed a lot since then.

The circuit was built with some deliberate design compromises in mind, to limit the amp's power and bandwidth for the sake of cost control. If you try to circumvent the limits that are imposted by one component, then you're likely to exceed the limits of another component and cause the other component to fail. Trying to beef up one of these little amps for bass use is a lot like building a house of cards.

The power transformer on this amp is small. It has a limited current delivery capacity. The filament load from the rectifier shouldn't be exceeded by changing rectifier tubes. If you do that, the increased current load on the transformer will cause voltage sag on the output, in addition to causing the transformer to run a lot hotter. Voltage sag on the output is bad for the circuit; excessive heat over time will make the transformer fail.

Going downstream in the PSU circuit, the choice of rectifier limits your ability to replace PSU caps. Tube rectifiers have a capacitance limit for the first cap in the power supply. Exceed that limit by adding capacitance to the first position and you're going to kill your rectifier tube. Increasing the rating of the rectifier tube by choosing a beefier tube, or by replacing with a solid-state plug in rectifier, will only serve to transfer the failure point from the rectifier tube to the power transformer. You don't want to do that.

Also, beefing up caps in the supply chain isn't going to help you all that much, as the size of the first filter cap tends to place a practical limitation on the performance of the power supply rail. Adding lots of downstream capacitance won't help you much.

But suppose for a minute that you did do some helpful modifications, and increased the linearity of the amp for reproducting LF signals. Now take a look at that teenie weenie output transformer. It doesn't have the mass that's needed to provide the frequency response that you'll need to get the objective that you're looking for. So you either have to replace the OT or reduce your expectations.

In many respects, trying to beef-up one of these little amps is like playing a game of Whack-A-Mole at a carnival. No matter how many times you whack the mole, he pops-up out of another hole. With the amp, no matter how much you beef-up one area of the amp, you're going to find that another area of the amp is going to limit it's capabilities. So then you work on that area, and then you realize that there's a weak link somewhere else. Lather. Rinse. Repeat.

If you repeat the process often enough, you end up trying to shoehorn a totally different amplifier into the chassis.


These amps have been unloved and unrespected for a long time. The result is that hobbyists would mod them to death for decades as if they had no collectors value. During that time I was sort of a lone voice in the wilderness, asking people not to try to beef-up these little amps because doing so would invariably cause their destruction. That would be a shame, as they're one of the last examples of true PTP wiring. Since Jack White became popular, the amps have increased in market value by multiples of their previous valuations. Now these little Silvertones are starting to have real collectors value.

So my opinion on this is going to be a bit different than most peoples. Here's my take on the situation:

The amp isn't intended for Bass, and won't work well for bass unless you're going to limit it's use to a quiet studio-type application.

The amp has some collectors value now, and should be restored instead of modded.

If you mod the amp, you're going to find out that it's never going to end up being what you want it to be, and you're going to end up investing a lot of effort in trying to make it something that it was never intended to be. To save time and money, you might be better off starting with a different platform that's closer to what you want to achieve in the end. Doing that will result in a lot less expended effort.

Just my two cents.
 
WretchedExcess>

Although I agree with you in regards to creating cascading issues by changing one component, but I disagree that this amp was not intended for bass. The 1483 was designed and sold as a bass amp. It might not be a great one, but that's what it was designed and sold as. A cheapo, beginner model yes, but a bass amp nonetheless.

I am not looking to rip out it's guts and change it into something different. I was instead hoping that minor, reversable tweaks could be performed that would decrease the tendency to distort.

A cap job is a must due to the amp's age. In order to use the amp for guitar or bass, a swap of tubes and speaker (both easily reversable) will make it more dependable and more like it was when new.

If it turns out that is not enough, then I will use it for guitar. I searched a long time for an unmolested 1483 simply because they are so often modded. I respect it as a survivor, and will not wreck it to make it something it is not.

Thanks everyone for their input. I do really appreciate it.
 
^^^ Great photo!


> Numbers mean nothing.

Numbers mean everything.
Not in this instance. He was talking about not wanting to get a higher power handling speaker in order to match the wattage of the head to the cab. I pointed out the many low wattage amps with high power handling speakers to demonstrate that numbers meant nothing in that instance.

Context is everything.
 
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I would again like to thank everyone for their input. I have a plan to try to do what I can to use this amp for bass, without destroying it as a survivor:

I ordered an Eminence Beta 15. Even if using this for guitar, I would not want to blow the original Jensen speaker.

I have ordered a Weber WY3GT copper cap rectifier. If anything, this should relieve the PT of the amps required for the heater on the tube rectifier.

I called Eurotubes, and told them what I was trying to accomplish, they suggested trying 5751s in place of the 12AX7s. I ordered a pair if 5751s, and a pair of cool 6L6s. Again, even if used for guitar, I would replace the tubes, saving the originals for the sad day I may sell the amp.

Finally, I spotted a lone, empty 1483 cab up on the shelf of a local shop. I will be making an offer on it. It is a bit beat up, but I think I should have no problem making a closed back for it, and save the unmodified original cab for guitar use.

So, no cap changes, no un-reversable mods. We shall see how it turns out...
 
Check out the baffle board.

I've never seen a 1483 cab up close, but the 1484 and 1422 had two layers of industrial strength cardboard, each about 1/4"-3/8" thick. The outside layer has the grille cloth attached, and some mounting screws (sort of like carriage bolts) which go through the inner layer of cardboard. The inner layer has similar bolts installed for mounting the speaker. IOW, the speaker is hanging off one layer of heavy duty cardboard. That's one reason the speaker holes in the baffle are so small, to help the cardboard resist tearing.

A heavy speaker might not hang well.
 
I am familiar with Danelectro baffle boards and you are so right: They are flimsy. If I can land that lone 1483 cab, I will definitely swap out the masonite baffle board for a plywood one.

As far as the original cab goes... I will compare the weight of the old speaker, which is not puny by any standards, before I mount the Eminence. In any event, the baffle board is screwed in, not glued or jointed, so even were I to swap it out, it is always reversible.
 
OK guys, I am officially throwing in the towel. I changed the speaker, and the tubes, and the result was that distortion now begins at 6 instead of 4 on the dial. No worries as I will be using the amp for guitar instead. So, to sum this all up: The Silvertone 1483 "bass" amp really does not work for bass due to its tendency to distort. Thanks again for everyone's input.
 
The good news is that your efforts weren't a total loss. You've still got a fun little guitar amp to play with.

Even though these Silvertones were marketed as "bass" amps back in the day, they were low-end amps back then and even then they left a lot to be desired compared to "real" amps like Fenders. Fast forward to today and those little Silvertones leave even more to be desired because what we ask of a bass amp has changed a lot over the years.

The good news is that all of your effort wasn't wasted -- you'll have a nice little guitar amp to add to your collection. I'm thinking that if you're going to leave it as a guitar amp, it'd probably retain most of its value if you left the circuit as un-modded and original as possible. That's what the collectors are looking for, anyway, and they seem to be driving the market for Silvertones right now.

Have fun!
 
I have near perfect 1483 plan to use for guitar. However; the original speaker is aweful. I have ordered the Vintage Ted Weber 15" Ferro Max. 9 Lb Magnet. Moderate Cone doping. the only thing that I will do to check tone / tighten bass is try a solid state 5Y3 Solid State Rectifier Plug in. ( I have to watch the increase of possible 50% on voltage ( will have to check specifications of the capacitors/resistors first. I will Use all Brand new Tubes. At this point all the Tubes are original. Let's Talk Weber, I had Ted years ago make an 8 Inch speaker for a 1974 Champ All tube. The amp opened up like the Gates of Heaven, not just 6 watts but it will do any tone and is so loud you can do anything with it. RIP Ted !! Reason I mention this is that Weber makes a 50 watt version of the 15" Speaker in the Vintage series Ferro Max Ceramic Magnet speaker. The only Question that I would Like to know in finality will a 5Y3 Solid State Rectifier fry my power supply?
 
I have near perfect 1483 plan to use for guitar. However; the original speaker is aweful. I have ordered the Vintage Ted Weber 15" Ferro Max. 9 Lb Magnet. Moderate Cone doping. the only thing that I will do to check tone / tighten bass is try a solid state 5Y3 Solid State Rectifier Plug in. ( I have to watch the increase of possible 50% on voltage ( will have to check specifications of the capacitors/resistors first. I will Use all Brand new Tubes. At this point all the Tubes are original. Let's Talk Weber, I had Ted years ago make an 8 Inch speaker for a 1974 Champ All tube. The amp opened up like the Gates of Heaven, not just 6 watts but it will do any tone and is so loud you can do anything with it. RIP Ted !! Reason I mention this is that Weber makes a 50 watt version of the 15" Speaker in the Vintage series Ferro Max Ceramic Magnet speaker. The only Question that I would Like to know in finality will a 5Y3 Solid State Rectifier fry my power supply?

The weber speaker is a good choice.

There are a couple of concerns. The 1483 was designed to run on 117VAC. Depending on your location, the line voltage might be higher which would tax the power supply components, increasing the power supply voltages. Adding a solid state rectifier will increase them even further. Weber offers two types, a basic diode module and a unit that emulates a 5Y3. The 5Y3 unit has a dropping resistor build into it which will help. Of the two, I would go with the latter.

Your amp may be able to cope with the higher voltages. On the other hand, if the caps are original and not able to take the added stress, it might cause them to fail sooner rather than later. If the power supply electrolytic caps are original, I would consider replacing them. I would find a higher voltage rated cap for C16 (the first PS node). Rather than 450V, replace it with one rated 500V or higher. The ones that they used did not stand up that well. I would also check R40, the 270R 5W cathode bias resistor, and R35, R36, and R37, the power supply dropping resistors.

Otherwise, enjoy the amp!
 

Attachments

^^^ Great photo!


> Numbers mean nothing.

Numbers mean everything. Or maybe I should say, they mean different things to different people.

I have one of these old Silvertone amps in the Twin Twelve format. I have never even considered plugging a bass into it.

The amp was designed to be an inexpensive, power-limited and bandwidth-limited guitar amp. It was designed with deliberate compromises in mind. It's one of the last amps that you could buy where PTP wiring was used because it was the cheap way to build an amp. Things have changed a lot since then.

The circuit was built with some deliberate design compromises in mind, to limit the amp's power and bandwidth for the sake of cost control. If you try to circumvent the limits that are imposted by one component, then you're likely to exceed the limits of another component and cause the other component to fail. Trying to beef up one of these little amps for bass use is a lot like building a house of cards.

The power transformer on this amp is small. It has a limited current delivery capacity. The filament load from the rectifier shouldn't be exceeded by changing rectifier tubes. If you do that, the increased current load on the transformer will cause voltage sag on the output, in addition to causing the transformer to run a lot hotter. Voltage sag on the output is bad for the circuit; excessive heat over time will make the transformer fail.

Going downstream in the PSU circuit, the choice of rectifier limits your ability to replace PSU caps. Tube rectifiers have a capacitance limit for the first cap in the power supply. Exceed that limit by adding capacitance to the first position and you're going to kill your rectifier tube. Increasing the rating of the rectifier tube by choosing a beefier tube, or by replacing with a solid-state plug in rectifier, will only serve to transfer the failure point from the rectifier tube to the power transformer. You don't want to do that.

Also, beefing up caps in the supply chain isn't going to help you all that much, as the size of the first filter cap tends to place a practical limitation on the performance of the power supply rail. Adding lots of downstream capacitance won't help you much.

But suppose for a minute that you did do some helpful modifications, and increased the linearity of the amp for reproducting LF signals. Now take a look at that teenie weenie output transformer. It doesn't have the mass that's needed to provide the frequency response that you'll need to get the objective that you're looking for. So you either have to replace the OT or reduce your expectations.

In many respects, trying to beef-up one of these little amps is like playing a game of Whack-A-Mole at a carnival. No matter how many times you whack the mole, he pops-up out of another hole. With the amp, no matter how much you beef-up one area of the amp, you're going to find that another area of the amp is going to limit it's capabilities. So then you work on that area, and then you realize that there's a weak link somewhere else. Lather. Rinse. Repeat.

If you repeat the process often enough, you end up trying to shoehorn a totally different amplifier into the chassis.


These amps have been unloved and unrespected for a long time. The result is that hobbyists would mod them to death for decades as if they had no collectors value. During that time I was sort of a lone voice in the wilderness, asking people not to try to beef-up these little amps because doing so would invariably cause their destruction. That would be a shame, as they're one of the last examples of true PTP wiring. Since Jack White became popular, the amps have increased in market value by multiples of their previous valuations. Now these little Silvertones are starting to have real collectors value.

So my opinion on this is going to be a bit different than most peoples. Here's my take on the situation:

The amp isn't intended for Bass, and won't work well for bass unless you're going to limit it's use to a quiet studio-type application.

The amp has some collectors value now, and should be restored instead of modded.

If you mod the amp, you're going to find out that it's never going to end up being what you want it to be, and you're going to end up investing a lot of effort in trying to make it something that it was never intended to be. To save time and money, you might be better off starting with a different platform that's closer to what you want to achieve in the end. Doing that will result in a lot less expended effort.

Just my two cents.
 
Thank you. I am only going to replace the Speaker with a good Teb Webber Ferro Max 15" Vintager series 30 watt and then Replace the 60 Year old Tubes all old branded Silvertone. I plan to look at the specs on the new Tubes and use pretested, burned in tubes. I have never hand problem with pretested tubes my other 8 Tube PTP wired amplifiers.
While this amplifier completes my entire set of 1960 Series Silvertone amps. I like it as is. The Technician only did a restoration. No Mods on any of my Tube Amps. Only Power supply plug in and grounding. Thank you for the great information. Much respect on the advice.
 
Buying burnt in and well matched power tubes is always a good idea.

My first store bought amp was a small Silvertone. I got it on sale, it had a broken handle. It sounded really nice when it was cranked. I have fond memories of gigging with that little amp in the early 60's. I recall that it had Silvertone branded tubes. later, I used a Silvertone bass amp with 215's. Also had a Silvertone console stereo radio/record player in the 70's.
 
The weber speaker is a good choice.

There are a couple of concerns. The 1483 was designed to run on 117VAC. Depending on your location, the line voltage might be higher which would tax the power supply components, increasing the power supply voltages. Adding a solid state rectifier will increase them even further. Weber offers two types, a basic diode module and a unit that emulates a 5Y3. The 5Y3 unit has a dropping resistor build into it which will help. Of the two, I would go with the latter.

Your amp may be able to cope with the higher voltages. On the other hand, if the caps are original and not able to take the added stress, it might cause them to fail sooner rather than later. If the power supply electrolytic caps are original, I would consider replacing them. I would find a higher voltage rated cap for C16 (the first PS node). Rather than 450V, replace it with one rated 500V or higher. The ones that they used did not stand up that well. I would also check R40, the 270R 5W cathode bias resistor, and R35, R36, and R37, the power supply dropping resistors.
Otherwise, enjoy the amp!

Hey Beans !
This is what I found at WEBER, with your reference this seems to be what you are explaining to me about the drop in solid state rectifier. Invalid Link Removed $23.00
FOR USE IN GUITAR AMPS.
Not designed for use with HIFI tube amps, tube radios, etc. - Try the WS1 instead. Drop-in Replacement for 5Y3GT. Voltage drop: 50V at Maximum Current: 125ma.
8-pin Copper Cap. Replaces 5Y3GT. Vdrop: 50V @ Imax: 125ma

Tube Blues
 
Hey Beans !
This is what I found at WEBER, with your reference this seems to be what you are explaining to me about the drop in solid state rectifier. Invalid Link Removed $23.00
FOR USE IN GUITAR AMPS.
Not designed for use with HIFI tube amps, tube radios, etc. - Try the WS1 instead. Drop-in Replacement for 5Y3GT. Voltage drop: 50V at Maximum Current: 125ma.
8-pin Copper Cap. Replaces 5Y3GT. Vdrop: 50V @ Imax: 125ma

Tube Blues


I've used both products.

Yes. The WS1 is simply diodes, there is no sag when the amp is pushed. This will allow what they call a stiffer sound with less distortion. The power supply voltages will be higher because unlike the tube rectifier, there is not a large voltage drop with just the diodes. People use these when the amps sags and distorts too much.

The WY3GT copper cap drops 50V at 125mA. At a lower current, the resistor will drop less voltage. So it depends on how much current you amp draws. Different amps will perform differently. If the amp draws less that 125mA, the voltage drop will be less (V=IR). The WY3GT does not perform the same as a real 5Y3. If you want a solid state replacement that is close to the tube, go with this option.

One advantage is that the SS devices do not draw any heater current. This is easier on the power transformer, less heat dissipated.