sitting position

[ekspain]

while I'm at it. I was wondering what you think would be a good sitting position. I've been trying various ideas, and find that in general, if I sit, using a flat hair on the G-string is difficult- if I want to keep the bow straight. How do I get the best access to the fingerboard. What sitting position can you recommend, for playing in orchestra?

Thanks again....

 

[PNeher]

while I'm at it. I was wondering what you think would be a good sitting position. I've been trying various ideas, and find that in general, if I sit, using a flat hair on the G-string is difficult- if I want to keep the bow straight. How do I get the best access to the fingerboard. What sitting position can you recommend, for playing in orchestra?

Thanks again....

My favorite sitting position is standing!
Try both feet on the floor, sitting your butt on the edge of the stool (this can lead to some tailbone issues). If your bass is "too big" for reaching the G string, place the bass a bit to your left, angled to the right (edited for clarity Sept 2010). One is usually required to "reach out" and over to place the bow flat hair on the G string, esp. at the tip. That's bass playing, standing or sitting. I used to sit (25 years) then moved to standing with a bent pin. A lot of people are doing that in the orchestra... they sit for resting when the conductor is "rehearsing" the violins...
Good luck!
Patrick

 

[Enzo]

What's a "bent" pin, Patrick? Enzo

 

[PNeher]

What's a "bent" pin, Patrick? Enzo

"Normally" an end pin is straight, coming out of a straight hole on the bottom, middle, of your bass (the endpin plug). A bent pin usually is angled about 43 to 45 degrees and CAN use the same plug. This reduces weight of the bass on the left hand. It also allows the bass to be played at an angle that facilitates weight-transfer of your arm through the bow. Another way is to have a hole drilled in the bottom block at this angle and use a straight, but tapered stick/pin. This is what I do. It is called the Laborie End Pin for lack of better description. Google it and you will find lots of info and variations.

The attempt of all angled pins is to put the point of balance of the bass more forward so that the bass can be played at a sitting-like angle (for some) and, mainly, to reduce the weight of the bass on the left hand. This angle makes it easier to apply weight to the bass (bowing) and allows ease in shifting (for those that stand. Sitting players still have this easier, but at a sacrifice (IMHO) of sound due to lack of relaxed weight on the bow). Anyway, a bent pin is not for everyone, but it is catching on. Hundreds, if not thousands, of players now use a bent pin. In my research, I found that way back in the 17th century, some basses had a knob on the rib of the back on the bottom, doing exactly the same thing... moving the weight of the bass forward, so the bass balances at an angle. The steel, straight pin came in during the Industrial Revolution and really, until the past twenty or so years, has not be "re-examined" for playability and sound enhancement. Angled pins definitely sound different than straight, at least on my bass and on many others that we have done experiments.
Again, check out the various articles on the Web for some of the 'history" of end pin technologies.
Best!
PN

 

[mkp]

I have always been a regular reader of this blog. I am a budding bass guitarist and this blog has been of immense help to me. The present blog talks about the correct sitting position. I have some serious doubts about PNeher’s suggestion In fact I used to sit like that but I slowly began to develop back problems. Finally I had to consult a doctor and had to be hospitalized. I think the best way is to keep your butt in the middle portion of the stool.

 

[PNeher]

I never said there was a "correct sitting position" !! Beware, read exactly what's written. I said that my favorite sitting position is standing (with a Laborie type bent pin). There are myriad ways to sit with the bass. If some one you tried gave you back problems, obviously you must try another or stand. There is no "right" way, no "correct" way that works for everyone, and I rarely, if ever, say that there is a correct way of doing anything! So, keep helping yourself, because what you get from my forum is that there are 1000s of ways to play the bass well, and what we do here is discover all of them. You must chose what is "right" for YOU (like keeping your butt in the middle of your stool!). Best to you!
PN

I have always been a regular reader of this blog. I am a budding bass guitarist and this blog has been of immense help to me. The present blog talks about the correct sitting position. I have some serious doubts about PNeher’s suggestion. In fact I used to sit like that but I slowly began to develop back problems. Finally I had to consult a doctor and had to be hospitalized. I think the best way is to keep your butt in the middle portion of the stool.

 

[lurk]

I'm a 60 year old bassist, and my back is starting to act up. I've bought a bent endpin, but can't get the hang of using it. I like the basic concept, and it seems that I'll be able to reach the whole length of the fingerboard in a more natural way with less stress on my spine, but the bass feels unstable to me. When I stand with my normal straight pin, I contact the instrument on the back-right seam of the upper bout with my belly, and my left knee just touches a spot on the back. I can easily support the bass that way without touching it with my hands at all (this is a goal I've been giving students for years). When I use the bent pin, I can't reach the bass with my knee without doing something that seems really biomechanically unhealthy, and end up using my hand, or hands when playing pizz., to help keep the bass from "spinning". Any advice?

 

[quenoil]

The bass shouldn't touch your knee with the position required by the angled endpin. There three things balancing it:

1) the endpin on the floor
2) the shoulder of the bass against your belly
3) your left thumb or shoulder (if you're in the upper register) on the neck of the bass

In other words, yes, without your left hand or shoulder on the bass it will spin and fall. Without seeing what you're doing it's impossible to give exact advice, but if you bear these three points in mind and experiment a bit you'll figure it out. It will be definitely different from how you're holding the bass now - probably more open than what you're used to (meaning that the bass will be more directly in front of you, kind of like a cellist with their instrument).

I'm sure Patrick will have more a more clarifying answer than this, but thought I'd throw my experience in for you.

 

[PNeher]

Hi Lurk!
Yes the "spinning" out of the bass is a common problem for many of us who have moved from sitting to standing or standing with a bent pin from standing without. From my experience and that of my students, it seems that if one losses contact at any time with your waist/belly with the upper edge or the rib of the bass (assuming the bass does not have excessively huge upper bouts), the bass wants to spin out. This means that you must sort of keep your back in a semi-arched position (like looking up at the sky) to have your belly area contact the bass. Even when the left hand reaches for a higher pitched position (thumb position and beyond), you must keep your back "straight" and the bass must come to your shoulder. You do NOT want to "hunch" or bend at the shoulders, this releases the contact and the bass will spin. In higher notes playing, especially on the E string, you can control the bass easily with your hips and your toes (YES!) but only if you maintain contact with the waist/belly. The bent pin (especially the Laborie Pin) is for standing as IF you were sitting (without a bent pin), to reduce weight on your left thumb (more below). Sitting players rarely use the bent pin, although cellists sometimes do.

One thing that I personally shy away from is not supporting the bass with the left hand thumb. I believe you need some weight of the bass on your thumb (when the bass is not on your shoulder, in thumb position for example) to know exactly where it is, for proper intonation, etc. I like to flexibly stand straight up and down, most of the time, and do not support the bass with my knee. I find that stresses my leg too much and the lopsidedness my body tries to correct during my sleep!
Someday soon I hope to have this whole thing explained on a YouTube video, "PNeher" channel.
Hope this helps. For more, look at much earlier forum posts.
BTW: it took me about two years to feel totally comfortable with the bent pin after 25 years of sitting. So, give yourself time and above all: be relaxed.
Patrick

I'm a 60 year old bassist, and my back is starting to act up. I've bought a bent endpin, but can't get the hang of using it. I like the basic concept, and it seems that I'll be able to reach the whole length of the fingerboard in a more natural way with less stress on my spine, but the bass feels unstable to me. When I stand with my normal straight pin, I contact the instrument on the back-right seam of the upper bout with my belly, and my left knee just touches a spot on the back. I can easily support the bass that way without touching it with my hands at all (this is a goal I've been giving students for years). When I use the bent pin, I can't reach the bass with my knee without doing something that seems really biomechanically unhealthy, and end up using my hand, or hands when playing pizz., to help keep the bass from "spinning". Any advice?