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Small but powerful subs to run with QSC K12 tops

Rockin Mike

Rockin Mike

May 27, 2011
2,772
424
#1
I have a pair of QSC K12 tops and a Ksub.
It's becoming apparent that a single Ksub is not going to cut it for a dance rock band running kick triggered through a drum synth, bass guitar, and thumpy dance stuff on the break tape.

What's the best direction to go for beefing up the system?
Adding more Ksubs?
Ditching the Ksub for one or more KW181s?

I'm looking for small size & weight with top shelf sound, and willing to save my pennies until I can afford it.

I'm assuming QSC products will match best with the tops, but willing to go with another brand if it meets the goals.

I have read that the Ksubs drive low mids nicely, but don't have the sub punch no matter how many you use. Does anyone have experience that confirms or refutes this?

Thanks for your help.
 
#4
I speak from personal experience that a pair of 181s will do a great job at decent volume in an auditorium with seating capacity of 500+. Pink noise analysis in the room tells me they're strong/flat down to about 60, down 3 dB at around 42-45. This is borne out in live performances where I hear my BG's E string begin to wimp out around fret 3 (forget 5 strings -- all you'll hear is the B string's harmonics, if they're present at all). A and above kills. This is the range of interest for heavy dance, word-clocked synth, house mix, etc. You'll love 'em. Run 'em center stage, if possible, to avoid power alleys, because with subs this capable, you WILL get them, and get them big time, if you separate them. Hope this helps.
 
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#6
If you mean totally separate signals, well, that does avoid the common trap of mixed subs, which can get you disastrous comb-filtering problems. That part's good. The only problem is that much of kick's energy is perilously close to either sub's upper cut-off frequency. Also, kick contains lots of harmonics that routinely get boosted (and should be, because that makes the kick launch right out of the mix -- exactly what you need for dance work -- not to mention the fact that keeping kick up and out of the way of BG range is a good idea, to keep things from mudding up). I've seen some people boost as low as 1800, some as high as 6K for "kick click." In any case, I believe you'll lose a lot of kick's potential impact and clarity by running it solely through a bandwidth-limited sub.
 
#7
craig.p said:
If you mean totally separate signals, well, that does avoid the common trap of mixed subs, which can get you disastrous comb-filtering problems. That part's good. The only problem is that much of kick's energy is perilously close to either sub's upper cut-off frequency. Also, kick contains lots of harmonics that routinely get boosted (and should be, because that makes the kick launch right out of the mix -- exactly what you need for dance work -- not to mention the fact that keeping kick up and out of the way of BG range is a good idea, to keep things from mudding up). I've seen some people boost as low as 1800, some as high as 6K for "kick click." In any case, I believe you'll lose a lot of kick's potential impact and clarity by running it solely through a bandwidth-limited sub.
Click to expand...

You're losing me there, I understood part of that but not all.
I would feed the two subs from two separate auxes containing different material to avoid comb filtering, yes.
I would put everything including kick, bass, guitars, vocals, in the K12 tops (main L & R out on my board) and send just kick to the KW181 from aux6 and just BG to the Ksub on aux5.
Would it be bad to feed the kick to both a sub and the tops?
 
#8
Rockin Mike said:
You're losing me there, I understood part of that but not all.
I would feed the two subs from two separate auxes containing different material to avoid comb filtering, yes.
I would put everything including kick, bass, guitars, vocals, in the K12 tops (main L & R out on my board) and send just kick to the KW181 from aux6 and just BG to the Ksub on aux5.
Would it be bad to feed the kick to both a sub and the tops?
Click to expand...

Aux feeding subs is a good way to clean up the sound, not sure how the routing would be with your active subs but there'll be a way to do it.

Yes, everything in the tops, that's where all your harmonics and tone are. Let the crossover do it's job.

As far as needing more, add another of what you have and cluster them centerstage.

Loud, low, and small do not go together for subs. You can have any two, but not all three.
 
#9
The KW's are a definite improvement on the K's, to my ears. I'd trade in the old sub and go for the KW, single or a pair.

I also like to use an aux to feed the subs. Kick, toms, bass go to the mains, and using an aux channel to the subs. I set the send to post fader. You can really model your sound that way - and get that big bottom end for the dance stuff.
 
#10
We have a 181 and a k sub in the arsenal, some rooms make the 181 sound kinda flabby, some make the k sub sound anemic... If it were 1 sub only, the 181 would be te pick as you can EQ the flab out. Having both is a nice option. I personally prefer the k sub for the majority of what do inside. I don't do a ton of electronica or heavy dance stuff though.

Either way I would stick wit qsc as te lpf in the subs matches the hpf in your tops...
 

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