Small monitor amp

[skycruiser]

I play with a big band jazz group where normally only guitars, singer and keyboard are amplified. I use an ampeg combo and sometimes have to stand so close to my amp that I can't hear myself well.

Would a small 25w bass amp such as the Acoustic b25c, pointed upward toward myself, serve well as a monitor? Those can be picked up used for about $80. I don't want to spend much.

 

[WayneP]

Don't see why it wouldn't work. I use a little EV PA speaker with an 8" woofer as a monitor myself, sitting on a stool in front of me, or to the side (depending on the stage).

A possible concern is the low power (25 watts), but you can get more "mileage" out of it by reducing the lows (you're already getting them from the Ampeg combo) and setting it on a milk crate (or something) to get it closer to ear level. Or as mentioned, a portable folding stool.

Of course, you will have to figure out a way to get signal to both amps.

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt

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[Zbysek]

The solution to your problem is the Ear Box from Phil Jones. It costs more than 80 bucks though…

 

[skycruiser]

The ampeg has a effects loop output that can be used as an input to a second powered amp.

I picked up a used B25c yesterday and tried it out last night. It sounds really bad at certain frequencies, farting out a lot even with the bass cut way back. It may not work for a gig. The guitar center also had an older 25w ampeg I could try I guess. I picked the Acoustic because it was a little smaller. Both were $80 (the ampeg looked much more used and older).

Phil Jones stuff is way out of my price range.

 

[Gervais Cote]

I have been in a similar situation in the past and realized that for a bass player, a 10" speaker is barely the minimum for a personal monitor. Tilting it upward would certainly help.

As much as I love my modified Ampeg BA 108, it's never been up to the task although it has the possibility to be tilted upward. When I use it with non-amplified acoustic guitars and no drums though, it's simply perfect.

If you could find a used Ampeg BA 110 with an angled notch for tilting, you would be fine. I see these for sale randomly and prices vary between $ 80.00 and $ 200.00 depending on the condition.

 

[five7]

As a 5 string player the BA110 is one of the worst amps I have owned. A rumble 25 sounds much better.

 

[cmcentyre77]

As a 5 string player the BA110 is one of the worst amps I have owned. A rumble 25 sounds much better.

I'm interested in if you think a BA110 or even BA108 will sound good with a four string or if you still feel like the rumble 25 will sound better.

 

[skycruiser]

This is how I'll set it up at my gig Monday if I end up having to stand to one side of my amp. At first I thought the B25C wouldn't work but with it pointed right at my head like this, I think it will help. As suggested above I cut the bass back to avoid farting out the little guy.

 

[Wasnex]

This is how I'll set it up at my gig Monday if I end up having to stand to one side of my amp. At first I thought the B25C wouldn't work but with it pointed right at my head like this, I think it will help. As suggested above I cut the bass back to avoid farting out the little guy.

View attachment 7364269

This will work for whatever volume the B25C can provide, which is probably not much.

There are a couple of potential issues:
1. Mixing amps and cabs can result in polarity, phase, and group delay issues that degrade the sound. If the two rigs are out of polarity the low end will cancel. If the phase and group delay vary too much, it degrades sound quality and and can produce sort of a hollow effect where the sound is obviously louder but simultaneously harder to hear when playing with others.

2. Cutting the Bass control may help, but it's not ideal. The reason is because Bass controls tend to reach up pretty high into the mids, so it winds up cutting some of the most important frequencies. If this occurs, a variable HPF should work better, but off course add cost. My guess is the best results will be with the HPF up around 150hz.

The FDeck HPF can be adjusted up to 140hz. The Broughton can be adjusted up to 190hz.

Try elevating and tilting the Ampeg...without the extra Acoustic combo.

That looks like an RB combo, but I don't know which one it is. It would be helpful to know.

The RB115 and RB210 can run an 8 ohm extension cab. AFAIK they don't make RB exention cabs. The PF cabs have very similar cosmetics, but I don't know how well they would match with the RB Comb speakers. If they are a perfect match, you would get ~6dB of additional headroom, which is quite a bit.

 

[skycruiser]

This will work for whatever volume the B25C can provide, which is probably not much.

There are a couple of potential issues:
1. Mixing amps and cabs can result in polarity, phase, and group delay issues that degrade the sound. If the two rigs are out of polarity the low end will cancel. If the phase and group delay vary too much, it degrades sound quality and and can produce sort of a hollow effect where the sound is obviously louder but simultaneously harder to hear when playing with others.

2. Cutting the Bass control may help, but it's not ideal. The reason is because Bass controls tend to reach up pretty high into the mids, so it winds up cutting some of the most important frequencies. If this occurs, a variable HPF should work better, but off course add cost. My guess is the best results will be with the HPF up around 150hz.

The FDeck HPF can be adjusted up to 140hz. The Broughton can be adjusted up to 190hz.

Try elevating and tilting the Ampeg...without the extra Acoustic combo.

That looks like an RB combo, but I don't know which one it is. It would be helpful to know.

The RB115 and RB210 can run an 8 ohm extension cab. AFAIK they don't make RB exention cabs. The PF cabs have very similar cosmetics, but I don't know how well they would match with the RB Comb speakers. If they are a perfect match, you would get ~6dB of additional headroom, which is quite a bit.

Thanks for the input! I think I will really just need a little extra volume at those mid frequencies to solve my problem, so I'm hoping this combination will work. On the little monitor amp, I'm cutting the low and high pretty much to zero (to remove hiss and avoid farting) and keeping the mid eq at the middle. Testing in my practice room, I don't really hear that added amp when I stand away from the setup, out in front of the Ampeg amp. I really only hear it when I stand right next to the amp with the Acoustic pointed at my head. I think with the bass cut I can avoid that interference issue you mentioned, at least that's what I'm hoping.

I actually have two RB amps - the 100W one and the 2x10 (without the extension). I use the smaller one for rehearsal and only take the bigger one to gigs. Another option would be to run the 210 fx out into the 100W amp input, but that would take up too much floor space, would need to be pointed up as you said, and would have even more serious frequency cancellation issues possibly.

The group I'm playing with doesn't usually mic and amplify the horns, just vocals, guitar and keyboard (when we have one). So for indoor gigs I think my 210 without the extension is plenty. I didn't have to crank it much at the previous gig at an indoor hotel ballroom.

 

[skycruiser]

I just fiddled with the setup again and I'm probably going to set the bass on the monitor a little higher, maybe 9 oclock. Mid at noon or 1 oclock, and high EQ turned all the way down.

 

[skycruiser]

Update:
I ended up having a more space on the stage than I expected and was able to stand out in front of my Ampeg amp. Since I was able to hear myself well I didn't end up using the little Acoustic amp. But I'll hang onto for future gigs in case that problem arises again.