So Much for the Recovery

[bassrique]

Sorry, but I think the billions that could be spent on drilling could be better spent on improving alternative energy technology. Technology advancement never sleeps, but it moves a damn sight more quickly with more money pumped into it.

For instance, did you know the amount of methane that comes off the US's many landfills is enough to power every car in the US? Your average gasoline engine will run quite happily on methane, and without the horrible fart smell. Combine that with the type of hybrid technology that can be seen in the Chevy Volt and there's one of many shorter-term answers to how to get by without using oil. Even without methane, the US has ample supplies of natural gas which is also engine-friendly and far cleaner, not to mention easier and cheaper to drill for.

Shame it won't happen while the US is being run by big oil. They have too much to lose.

"Drilling" includes natural gas BTW. If other means of producing energy can do so cheaply, it will come about. Oil companies drilling for something that already works won't prevent that. To use a cliche, we need a bridge to the future. Hydrocarbons and nuclear [along with other things] could provide that bridge quite nicely.

 

[dj150888]

Once again, I wasnt trying to be rude but your first words to us Americans was to "suck it up". If your father does travel that much, that is far from typical. I dont think Americans would be complaining if it didnt greatly affect our lives and finances.

I believe a lack of vocal tone perhaps caused my initial post to come across more harsh than I intended. The, "suck it up" bit was supposed to be in jest and should probably have been followed by one of these, " " or these " " .

I'm aware that my dad's travel is far from typical, but my point is, if he can make ends meet paying those gas prices while doing those miles, someone paying $4 a gallon doing less miles should be able to manage alright. My dad isn't a massively high earner, I come from a very working class family. You make a few cuts in other aspects of your life, get on with it and tough it out. Isn't that what the American spirit is really about?

 

[Hawaii Islander]

I just gassed up about an hour ago at the local Hess. $3.23/gal. $20 gave me a bit over 6 gallons. Guess we'll all have to drive accordingly for a while.

I wish regular gas was $3.23 here. If gas reaches $4.00 a gallon on the mainland, it will more than $5.00 per gallon here in Hawaii.

 

[Nicky55]

Gee, if there was only a way to get our own oil......

+1

 

[iamlowsound]

Sorry, but I think the billions that could be spent on drilling could be better spent on improving alternative energy technology. Technology advancement never sleeps, but it moves a damn sight more quickly with more money pumped into it.

For instance, did you know the amount of methane that comes off the US's many landfills is enough to power every car in the US? Your average gasoline engine will run quite happily on methane, and without the horrible fart smell. Combine that with the type of hybrid technology that can be seen in the Chevy Volt and there's one of many shorter-term answers to how to get by without using oil. Even without methane, the US has ample supplies of natural gas which is also engine-friendly and far cleaner, not to mention easier and cheaper to drill for.[\b]

Shame it won't happen while the US is being run by big oil. They have too much to lose.

That is not true, landfills produce a lot of
Methane, but not that much. Energy from waste, EFM, is not efficient enough to produce that much energy. Currently the best EFM technologies have an efficiency of around 30%.

lowsound

 

[Rusty Chainsaw]

That is not true, landfills produce a lot of
Methane, but not that much. Energy from waste, EFM, is not efficient enough to produce that much energy. Currently the best EFM technologies have an efficiency of around 30%.

lowsound

Exactly my point. More research into EFM tech will result in greater efficiencies, same as is happening with solar. I'll see if I can find where that statistic came from (I read it a while back) but between landfills and agricultural waste, that's one hell of a lot of methane.

 

[MakiSupaStar]

Please delete if this is too political:

My take on this is that, if we value democracy, and we're seeing it coming to the middle east (finally!), then we should accept that the cost may be higher gas prices for a while.

This.

 

[bmc]

I'm not holding my breath on democracy in the Middle East. Theses societies are paternalistic, for one thing, supporting a good strong leader. Second, they have no idea what a democracy is, how it's run and how to organize themselves. Add to that, the fact that there have never been politicians coming through the ranks, through a democratic system.

Egypt has always had, and probably always will have military control. Tunisia? Too quiet. Bahrain? The king just released 300 prisoners. The crown prince, who's a good guy, wants to engage in bringing meaningful change. The people may damand change, but they know not want they want to change to as they know no differently. Libya? A dogs breakfast. Lucky they have oil as foreign interference will ensure forced stability arrives to ensure access to oil, not unlike Iraq. Saudi? Doubtful it will change.

In terms of stability from a country perspective, strong strong leadership is required. Someone has to keep it together.

As much as I support democracy, democracy has its flaws. Arguably, a benevolent dictator isn't a bad way to go. I lived it in Bahrain. That said, Bahrain's issues are more complex than the other countries.

My bigger overarching concern is who will be put in control, regardless of what political process is employed. The next group of guys with power may be far worse, for the world, than wha't we've seen. Far worse. Just because democracy is introduced doesn't mean terrorist organizations won't get voted in. We've seen it happen. I doubt we will collectively shrug our shoulders, after a major catastrophic terrorist attack and say, "well at least they have democracy."

Be careful what you wish for.

My tie in to this discussion is, until there's stability, oil prices will remain high. And I fear that could go on for some time. Fuel surcharges on air fares will go up for sure. (If you're planning a trip, buy the tickets now before they hit). Prices at the pumps will remain high. Cars with high fuel consumption will be hard to sell. The trickle effect on the economy will be bad. Particularly, if new leadership challenges existing strategic relationships.

 

[jp58]

Once again the conservative, sandwich heavy portfolio pays off for the investor!

On topic, I am glad I invested in a bike and some good running shoes. Seems both of them will start to get some good use when it starts to warm up.

 

[NateS]

i think it's funny how pretty much everyone in this thread thinks that the gas prices going up is caused by middle eastern conflict.

it's caused by greed. if trouble over there was really an issue then the oil companies wouldn't be turning multi-million dollar quarterly profits.

wake up. "we're trapped in the belly of this horrible machine, and the machine is bleeding to death."

 

[i_got_a_mohawk]

Even London is more compact than a city like Tampa.

Wouldn't agree with that. London is denser maybe, but people who work in London will rarely live in London itself (far too expensive), and if you start taking into account the greater London area, it is significantly larger than Tampa.

And, as has also been pointed out, there are still a lot of people here who make their living by driving (it's also why every few years we'll see pretty major fuel protests).

Public transport systems could be better implimented in the US, but I always get this strange vibe that public transport in the US is viewed as a poor mans route/has a related social stigma.

 

[bmc]

London has five airports offering scheduled service (City, Gatwick, Heathrow, Luton, Stanstead).

London, geographically and population wise, is far larger than Tampa.

 

[bmc]

i think it's funny how pretty much everyone in this thread thinks that the gas prices going up is caused by middle eastern conflict.

it's caused by greed. if trouble over there was really an issue then the oil companies wouldn't be turning multi-million dollar quarterly profits.

wake up. "we're trapped in the belly of this horrible machine, and the machine is bleeding to death."

Fully agree. It's operated by just about the only legal cartel in the world. And as good sheeple, we willingly accept it.

 

[Relic]

I'm not holding my breath on democracy in the Middle East. Theses societies are paternalistic, for one thing, supporting a good strong leader. Second, they have no idea what a democracy is, how it's run and how to organize themselves. Add to that, the fact that there have never been politicians coming through the ranks, through a democratic system.

Egypt has always had, and probably always will have military control. Tunisia? Too quiet. Bahrain? The king just released 300 prisoners. The crown prince, who's a good guy, wants to engage in bringing meaningful change. The people may damand change, but they know not want they want to change to as they know no differently. Libya? A dogs breakfast. Lucky they have oil as foreign interference will ensure forced stability arrives to ensure access to oil, not unlike Iraq. Saudi? Doubtful it will change.

In terms of stability from a country perspective, strong strong leadership is required. Someone has to keep it together.

As much as I support democracy, democracy has its flaws. Arguably, a benevolent dictator isn't a bad way to go. I lived it in Bahrain. That said, Bahrain's issues are more complex than the other countries.

My bigger overarching concern is who will be put in control, regardless of what political process is employed. The next group of guys with power may be far worse, for the world, than wha't we've seen. Far worse. Just because democracy is introduced doesn't mean terrorist organizations won't get voted in. We've seen it happen. I doubt we will collectively shrug our shoulders, after a major catastrophic terrorist attack and say, "well at least they have democracy."

Be careful what you wish for.

My tie in to this discussion is, until there's stability, oil prices will remain high. And I fear that could go on for some time. Fuel surcharges on air fares will go up for sure. (If you're planning a trip, buy the tickets now before they hit). Prices at the pumps will remain high. Cars with high fuel consumption will be hard to sell. The trickle effect on the economy will be bad. Particularly, if new leadership challenges existing strategic relationships.

Brian, that's a bit of a scary assessment... while I hope that the younger generations of the countries would want to break from past ways and move towards a more open, free society, I have no doubt that it's not going to happen overnight.
I tend to be a wishful thinker sometimes but I'm keeping my fingers crossed on this one.

 

[bmc]

To me, the priority, well beyond democracy, is stability in the short term. I'm sure the state dept is doing all possible to get a grip on who is emerging or is a possible leader in those countries. They gotta be looking at how to best position the USA as a friend to the people and not aligned to the leadership. Really delicate thin line to tread.

As for the scary assessment, I think it's realistic if you stop and think of it. These totalitarian countries have or are believed to have operatives working in offices, living next door, etc. People are so suspicious and untrusting. While they may hate a dictator, the notion of accepting a dictator is easier to stomach if he's a good guy.

Throw tribalism into the mix, as we see in Libya and it's a total crap shoot.

Stability is what is really needed. I think the moves by the royal family in Bahrain are sincere. They have been moving more towards a Jordanian style monarchy than what we see in Libya. They are sophisticated enough and have lived and travelled throughout the west to know there are aspects that are better. Some aspects. We don't have all the answers, as much as we think we do. Nor do they.

In the context of this thread, which I believe is a good discussion to have, we find ourselves facing complete unknown outcomes in a region rife with ugly historical baggage. Some of it self induced. Some of it forced upon by other more powerful nations. As long as these countries have natural resources that are in high demand, he who controls them wins. We've seen democratic elections not go the way the west wanted in Gaza. Promoting a democratic agenda in the countries facing unrest this week, may in fact result in similar outcomes. Victorious for the locals? Perhaps. Victorious for the western agenda? Perhaps not.

Ultimately, what will be good for them, may not be good for us. Today's thugs in command may be much better friends to the superpowers than tomorrows thugs in command.

And...to the point of the thread, we do not know the impact of this on the economic recovery. Until it settles down a bit. expect high fuel prices.

And in that vein, I have decided to take my 2006 Smart Fourfor 1.0 litre, four door subcompact, off the market because it runs on fumes.


Oh, and one last thing. Once it all settles down, I encourage people to visit the region. It's beautiful. The people are wonderful, caring and generous. Sadly, knowledge of the region only comes to light when stupid stuff is happening. I'll be in the region next week in Jordan. I can't wait.

 

[Joe Nerve]

Gas is skyrocketing again... will easily be $4 a gallon nationwide by Memorial Day.

That ought to be fun.

As long as people go out and buy bottled water, which cost more than gasoline has ever cost, I can't take any gasoline price complaints seriously.

 

[bmc]

As long as people go out and buy bottled water, which cost more than gasoline has ever cost, I can't take any gasoline price complaints seriously.

I live about 30 miles from a place called Evian, France. They are famous for bottling, what we readily see falling from tap faucets and charging, as you rightfully pointed out, more than gas at the pumps.

It's important to point out what Evian spells, when written backwards.

 

[VS]

I hate your state...no offense,lol. I worked in the petroleum field for 8 years. It's sick how much gas stations can make when they feel like taking a little off the top. I managed service stations on Interstate I-95 for years at the Chesapeake House and Maryland House. I managed the 2nd and 3rd busiest gas/service stations by volume in the United States. Our average profit margin at the time was around 6 cents per gallon. There were times that gas would drop in price (our cost) and we would be making about $1.50/gallon. -Luke

Quoting myself here,lol. Greed is all it is. Read^. -Luke

 

[nutdog]

Anybody remember what happened last time US average gas price hit $4? It was mid 2008. I'll give a few hints.

Meltdown. TARP. Bailout. Toxic assets. 10% unemployment.

Many things have been blamed, but the trigger (perhaps final straw is a better term) was rising energy prices. And none of that affected the rest of the world, so other countries can rest comfortably and enjoy our misery.

Of course, we've taken so many steps since then to put ourselves in a more secure economic position, both as a country and individually, right?

 

[bmc]

And none of that affected the rest of the world, so other countries can rest comfortably and enjoy our misery.

Iceland went bankrupt.

Ireland almost went bankrupt.

Greece is now owned by China.

Spain...we wish you well.

The wave hit the UK very hard.

This isn't even taking fueld prices into account. 34 airlines went bankrupt around the world.

The downside with a global economy are the links in trading and cross border financial transactions. When the house of cards in the US came tumbling down, it was felt around the world. Some countries are still reeling from it.