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So my bandmates did this...

We're a 6 piece with 2 lead singers. Classic rock to modern, some R&B. We play pretty loud.
PA is a Yorkville integrated with 800 per side @ 4 ohms. It's been pretty good for what it is. Monitors are powered Mackie's - so it's not taxing the amp. Speakers (used to be) 1 18" sub plus 15" with horn top per side. Owner sold the subs because he thought they were sucking the life out of the amp. We had 1 bad eq nite where we were lacking headroom, and it was tough to get a good mix from the stage.
Now only 2 15" speakers are being asked to handle guitar, keys, drums, 2 lead vocals, 3 backup vocals! That's without the bass being into it. I stated that adding the bass would overtax this setup, and I now always have to push the house with my rig (which I can do). This means most times bringing my "big rig" which is taxing at times. I explained that now the PA head is running at closer to only 400w per side due to the 8 ohm load, but it seems to fall on deaf ears. More...
I had a ART Prochannel mic preamp that I ran our lead male vocals into. It really made a diff to my ears. I had another small mic pre that I ran the female into, and it seemed to warm it up a bit. Last practice the guitarist decided that the pre's may be responsible for the lack of volume and asked that they be pulled out of the loop. I gladly did that explaining that they would not suck anything from the PA, if anything, it was another gain stage. More deaf ears. Now the vocals sounded very raw and in your face at the last prac, but the drummer (owner of PA, said he never heard the vocals so clearly. I explained that we needed to just properly eq the pre. Deaf ears...I can now really hear the lack of a little compression and warmth on the male vocal (he has a huge dynamic range), and this whole thing is making me nuts. I keep telling myself - I don't own the PA, so...How do I backup my beliefs that we're headed backwards tonally...or let it go?:hmm:
 
xring said:
We're a 6 piece with 2 lead singers. Classic rock to modern, some R&B. We play pretty loud.
PA is a Yorkville integrated with 800 per side @ 4 ohms. It's been pretty good for what it is. Monitors are powered Mackie's - so it's not taxing the amp. Speakers (used to be) 1 18" sub plus 15" with horn top per side. Owner sold the subs because he thought they were sucking the life out of the amp. We had 1 bad eq nite where we were lacking headroom, and it was tough to get a good mix from the stage.
Now only 2 15" speakers are being asked to handle guitar, keys, drums, 2 lead vocals, 3 backup vocals! That's without the bass being into it. I stated that adding the bass would overtax this setup, and I now always have to push the house with my rig (which I can do). This means most times bringing my "big rig" which is taxing at times. I explained that now the PA head is running at closer to only 400w per side due to the 8 ohm load, but it seems to fall on deaf ears. More...
I had a ART Prochannel mic preamp that I ran our lead male vocals into. It really made a diff to my ears. I had another small mic pre that I ran the female into, and it seemed to warm it up a bit. Last practice the guitarist decided that the pre's may be responsible for the lack of volume and asked that they be pulled out of the loop. I gladly did that explaining that they would not suck anything from the PA, if anything, it was another gain stage. More deaf ears. Now the vocals sounded very raw and in your face at the last prac, but the drummer (owner of PA, said he never heard the vocals so clearly. I explained that we needed to just properly eq the pre. Deaf ears...I can now really hear the lack of a little compression and warmth on the male vocal (he has a huge dynamic range), and this whole thing is making me nuts. I keep telling myself - I don't own the PA, so...How do I backup my beliefs that we're headed backwards tonally...or let it go?:hmm:

My Momma always said.......stupid is as stupid does. I understand what you were trying to accomplish with the pre's and I do agree that an outboard per can add to the sound.

But I think you have already lost the battle here. Others obviously far more learned than you have decided how they want to do things. So your real choice here is this:

A). Find someone who's opinion they do value to back your thoughts up.....
B) find another band that feels your contributions do warrant discussion
C) suck it up and take the paycheck while looking for that other band.

It's not that the two way boxes can't handle the bulk of the load when it comes to your band,but the bass and the bass drum and the kick will be lacking depth. I would continue to just bring your smaller rig and let them deal with making you sound full. The additional gain from the pre should not muddy the situation, but apparently it did to the guys in the band. If the subs were sucking the life out of the amp, they could just buy another amp and a crossover to drive the subs, which isn't a serious expenditure with so much used gear on CL and eBay or perhaps in your local music stores. But honestly, I wouldn't fight them on it, they've decided they were right already and that you are wrong.

Life is too short to dance with ugly women.....
 

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