Double Bass So What? Miles Davis

[arto alho]

Quoted from Demon Rundown:
"Depending on the attitude you take, no tune is easy."
That´s why stuff like "So what" is seldom called in jam sessions.

Quoted from Crackhousekey:
"The only thing easy about So What is remembering the changes. Playing something hip and swinging over something that is harmonically static is difficult."

You both said it, guys.
When I hear someone play "So what", "All blues", ( & other masterpieces by masters ) without having any REAL idea, I get bored and frustrated.

R2

Whoops, edited my typing

 

[Lovebown]

Originally posted by Bruce Lindfield


Actually this was written as a 'modal piece' - so Miles' intention on the original was not that you played those chords, but rather that you used the two Dorian modes that were specified.

So on the original you can hear that Miles (of course) Coltrane and Bill Evans are hip to this concept and only use notes from the modes - but that Cannonball Adderley just plays what he would normally play!!

Paul Chambers' walking line on the original is a classic and is certainly worthy of study for how to construct walking lines over a piece like this.

But of course - this tune has been done many times now in many different ways - but the original somehow always sounds the freshest....?

Sure it was a very cool recording and Miles concept with using only the dorian mood was cool...but a lot has happend since 1958 and Coltrane basically rewrote the book on playing modal tunes with his work with his quartet. I think most modern improvisers will try to go outside D/Eb Dorian instead of strictly stay inside.

/lovebown

 

[lermgalieu]

One thing that has helped me with things like this is to start practicing scales non linearly - maybe move up scales in thirds, starting from the II (just to get that dorian sound in your head). Just because there aren't any keychanges doesn't mean there isn't all sorts of harmonic motion going on, or possibly going on. If you think about a simple example, lets say Gm7, and think about either two bars of that

Gm7 | Gm7

Or moving up in thirds all of the sudden you can think about it like this

Gm(7) Am(7) | Bb C(7)

I put the 7's in parentheses because you as a bass player might not be actually playing them if you were playing a line like

G Bb A C | Bb D C E

In fact you aren't even playing the chords, and probably wouldn't expect someone else to be necessarily playing them either, however all of the sudden the bassline becomes much less linear and starts creating motion and space.

At least that's the idea. I am still slowly learning....so slowly...

I am not trying to say "here just move in thirds" but just to show you an example of approaching lines differently.

 

[Bruce Lindfield]

Originally posted by Lovebown


Sure it was a very cool recording and Miles concept with using only the dorian mood was cool...but a lot has happend since 1958 and Coltrane basically rewrote the book on playing modal tunes with his work with his quartet. I think most modern improvisers will try to go outside D/Eb Dorian instead of strictly stay inside.

/lovebown

But you have taken my post out of context!!!

So I was saying that in response to a post which said " just play the chords" !!

 

[Don Higdon]

Originally posted by Lovebown


Sure it was a very cool recording and Miles concept with using only the dorian mood was cool...but a lot has happend since 1958 and Coltrane basically rewrote the book on playing modal tunes with his work with his quartet. I think most modern improvisers will try to go outside D/Eb Dorian instead of strictly stay inside.

/lovebown

I didn't buy this when it was first posted, and I don't now.

 

[Bruce Lindfield]

I think the point is that if you are going to play a modal piece, which was written with specified modes - then you play the modes or it is not that piece any longer.

So - another of the tracks on "Kind of Blue" has no chords, no melody - just a number of specified modes. So, if you are playing something else - 'out' or whatever - then you just aren't playing that piece!

So - if you want to play a piece with more sophisticated harmony or more freedom - go ahead and do it - there are huge numbers of other tunes you can play.

Just don't say you are playing "Modal Jazz"!!

 

[lermgalieu]

I think you do whatever you want with it, but Bruce's point does hold - if you vaporize the two characteristics of the tune - the melody and modal approach - you might as well be playing something else. Ot just play it ultra fast like they RC, HH, etc did on that tribute album hehe. I think to me what comes out of those recordings (talking about hte original recordings again now) is a group of guys with a lot of really interesting solo concepts that play well with each other and really swing, and that's why they can make those modes sounds so good. They aren't running aimlessly up and down the scales, everything has intent. Its just a lots harder to disguise lack of intent when there are lots of chords to mask it, which is why jazz hacks like myself scream in frustration trying to do a solo in Eb/D Dorian.