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Speaker's Life Expectence?

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by C-5KO, Sep 18, 2005.


  1. C-5KO

    C-5KO

    Mar 9, 2005
    Toronto, Canada
    Is there such a thing?

    I just blew my EA's, then I went to my backup Genz Benz 210's, and they're blown now.

    I haven't changed anything in my rig. BBE SS pre, ADA Power amp.

    NOW, I did have issues with the EA's before (I think I just pushed them too hard for too long). So I'll forgive EA for that :eyebrow: .

    BUT, the GB 210s I haven't had a problem ever! One gig 3 years ago, I did push them really hard that the light was going off inside. But that was it.

    Oh, yeah. The guitar player did tip them over on the sidewalk, and the the front fell face first on the pavement. :scowl: In all fairness, our guitar player is quite clumsy, and I really shouldn't have let him touch any of my gear... one time he actually fell off the stage... if that gives you any idea of the type of character he is...

    Could this have torn the cones?
     
  2. billfitzmaurice

    billfitzmaurice Commercial User

    Sep 15, 2004
    New Hampshire
    Owner, Bill Fitzmaurice Loudspeaker Design
    How long? Twenty to forty years if you treat them right, twenty to forty minutes if you abuse them. Dropping a cab won't tear cones but it can dislodge the magnets.
     
  3. C-5KO

    C-5KO

    Mar 9, 2005
    Toronto, Canada
    I'm pretty sure the cones are torn. Any low notes played come out with a flappy sound.

    What does a dislodged magnet sound like?

    I've owned the speakers for around 7 years. And for about 4 of those years, I didn't even use them... I was using my EA speakers.

    After blowing all my cabs within 3 weeks I'm pretty disappointed.

    I'm guessing that the Genz Benz speakers will be easier and cheaper to replace than the EA ones. I was quotes over $300 from EA. Does anybody know where I can get a good price on cones for the Genz Benz 210 XB??? Or should I replace the cones with something more powerful? Would that be a good idea? Just putting in cones with more power?
     
  4. David Vega

    David Vega

    Aug 28, 2002
    Puerto Rico
    I have a Ampeg BXT410HL4 cab, about 3 yrs old, not a huge abuse, just practicing all weekends, one day a week.
    About a month ago, blown one speaker, repelced, but I think at that gig, two speaker blown, I tried yesterday, with my 5 string, the b string sound horrible.

    So, I think thi is relative how much time they last, but i will replace this piece of S*** with a Avatar 212LF or 410PRO :hyper:

    later!!
     
  5. billfitzmaurice

    billfitzmaurice Commercial User

    Sep 15, 2004
    New Hampshire
    Owner, Bill Fitzmaurice Loudspeaker Design
    Both a torn cone and a dislodged magnet could cause a flapping sound, but a busted motor assembly usually freezes the voice coil so that you get nothing except maybe some buzzing.
    From the sounds of it I doubt if you are qualified to do a recone, you'd be better off buying complete drivers.
    Not possible, but perhaps you are misusing the term cone. You'd have to replace the driver to get more power handling.
     
  6. Plain Old Me

    Plain Old Me

    Dec 14, 2004
    I'd have your power amp checked out too. From the sound of it, that may be popping your speakers as much as wear and tear.
     
  7. C-5KO

    C-5KO

    Mar 9, 2005
    Toronto, Canada
    Hmm... ok. I'll have to take it in to get it looked at either way.

    Yes. I'm using the term cone in the wrong manner. I mean the entire thing - driver?

    Oh. I didn't realize that they could just replace the cone!
     
  8. billfitzmaurice

    billfitzmaurice Commercial User

    Sep 15, 2004
    New Hampshire
    Owner, Bill Fitzmaurice Loudspeaker Design
    Its referred to as a recone and something you might want to investigate as opposed to a driver replacement. Just google recone.
     
  9. Frugle

    Frugle

    Sep 4, 2005
    Atlanta GA
    big auditoriums do it every few of years in their cabs... generally a cab costs about 20-50 grand a cab, so it's a better investment to have someone come in and recone than to replace the whole driver or cab.

    but in your case, reconing would cost much more than it's worth, (and it sounds like it wouldn't do much.)

    It's my theory you dislodged the magnet.. I've had that happen to my subs before (the many downfalls of ebay and it's stupid packers) the cone was fully intact, but it would make a loud flabby noise when plugged up, (as well as the audio I was sending to it) it definantly felt differently than a working sub.

    My suggestion would be to get new speakers completely.

    just an idea of how much it would cost to recone, http://www.simplyspeakers.com/16reconing.htm again I don't think that is your problem, but if it is, it may be worth doing that if only 1 speaker is messing up....
     
  10. C-5KO

    C-5KO

    Mar 9, 2005
    Toronto, Canada
    Hmm... thanks. link's not working for me right now. I'll try it later.

    I'm leaning towards getting more powerful speakers, depending on the price. Either that, or just renting for each gig, until I find something that works (better). I may have to upgrade to 410s which I'm reluctant to do. (back pain, and space)

    I believe it's only one speaker. If the magnet is dislodged, I'd have to replace the whole speaker?
     
  11. thedoctor

    thedoctor

    Jun 20, 2005
    I am not sure what a dislodged magnet is but it may refer to a bent basket. A fall onto its front would be likely to bend a stamped-steel basket, such as your Ampegs. Can't say about the Genz but they didn't get dropped, did they? If you spring for replacement speakers, do not buy the Ampeg replacements. They come from SLM, are made in China and have questionable heritage and capacity. Have that amp checked for sure as it doesn't take long to ruin a decent set of speakers with a large DC output component or severe clipping. Just my thoughts.
     
  12. billfitzmaurice

    billfitzmaurice Commercial User

    Sep 15, 2004
    New Hampshire
    Owner, Bill Fitzmaurice Loudspeaker Design
    Many magnets are simply glued to the frame. Even with bolted and glued magnets a 20 lb magnet's bond to the frame can easily be broken if dropped. Polepieces also can come loose.
    Reconing generally costs half the driver replacement cost. I wouldn't suggest reconing a $60 driver, I sure would a $300 one.
     
  13. Petebass

    Petebass

    Dec 22, 2002
    QLD Australia
    OK here's some food for thought. If you get all your speakers fixed, will you blow them again, given that we haven't really established what caused them to blow in the first place?

    OK we suspect the Genz Benz speaker damaged when they were dropped. I'm not convinced. Some of my speaker cabs have fallen out the back of trucks (thanks roadies) and still work many years later.

    And the fact that the EA's a re blown as well....... I'm thinking there's something in your setup that isn't speaker friendly. Maybe clipping, overpowering, perhaps too much EQ boost in the lows?
     
  14. C-5KO

    C-5KO

    Mar 9, 2005
    Toronto, Canada

    I question that also. I do use my octave pedals quite a bit. And I do play loud. My bandmates make sure to let the soundman know that they don't need bass in the monitors.

    So, after checking out the Genz, if I do need to replace the speakers, I'll try to get something more powerful. The EA's were great speakers, but I could have definately used more volume. I think next time, I'll get something that rated at 2x or 3x the power I actually use. I think the GB are 300W? I figure I should really have something around 500W or 600W. Either in 410s or 2 x 210s.
     
  15. PunkerTrav

    PunkerTrav

    Jul 18, 2001
    Canada & USA
    Just a thought...

    You say your cab landed face down? Could the intertia of the cones on impact forced them past their maximum excursion, possibly causing some damage that lead to their failure?

    Petebass or billfitzmaurice?
     
  16. Petebass

    Petebass

    Dec 22, 2002
    QLD Australia
    Not likely. If indeed that happened, the inertia of the moving part of the speaker wouldn't have been enough to do any damage. The cone/coil/surround part of the speaker contributes very little to the overall weight. The heaviest parts (ie the magnet and frame) don't move. If they did, you might be able to generate enough force to hurt the speaker.

    Without any voltage from the amp, the speakers would have just bounce back into posision. You get more force from slapping an E string.

    Bill's "dislodged speaker" theory is more likely, and even then I'd be more convinced if the speaker landed on it's side than on it's face.

    C-5KO, do you playa 5 string by any chance?
     
  17. billfitzmaurice

    billfitzmaurice Commercial User

    Sep 15, 2004
    New Hampshire
    Owner, Bill Fitzmaurice Loudspeaker Design
    I had just that happen with an EV SRO 15, it fell off another cab face down onto a stage, perhaps 3 feet. The magnet/pole/rear plate assembly came loose from the front plate. EV did warranty it.
     
  18. Jerrold Tiers

    Jerrold Tiers

    Nov 14, 2003
    St Louis
    Possible, of course. But to bend the frames it usually takes a hit that causes the magnets to be stressed SIDEWAYS. Like dropping the cab really hard on its side, top, or bottom.

    Sorry pal, but what you wrote is, frankly, both FALSE and offensive.

    The speakers mentioned (BXT410HL4) come from EMINENCE.

    I suggest you correct your thoughts......

    Lots of things can damage speakers "early". Doesn't have to be mechanical damage from dropping etc.

    The BXT410HL4 is a ported cabinet with a good low end response.

    All ported cabinets, of any sort or manufacturer suffer from the fact that below the tuning frequency, there is NO cone control. This means that if you feed the cabinet too much in the way of extreme lows, you can cause cone damage (usually folding, maybe tearing) or suspension damage.

    The BXT and similar cabs with good lows tend to encourage getting more agressive with low end, because within their limits, they will handle it and produce the lows. But ANY ported cab will "let go" if super lows are fed to it. That is one advantage of the sealed cabinet type.

    BTW, usually the super lows don't add much to the audible sound, tend to be muddy, and use up gobs of power. If you need to flap the clothes, it generally takes more cabinets.... one 410 is enough to whet the appetite, but it likely won't really start to happen until you use two 810s ........(of course the standard 810s are sealed and don't go that low, but I mean that sort of cone area)
     
  19. David Vega

    David Vega

    Aug 28, 2002
    Puerto Rico
    Well this eminence speaker is a custom designed by eminence for this ampeg cab. The speaker is 150w each. It is weird, because i was using this setup about one year without any problems. The cabs sounds good, but do not satisfy me on loudness. I am running this with a SVT4PRO, and this head is a monster pushing power alien!! Sometimes I run this in bridge mode for the head room, never pass halfway on Master Volume. I also paired this with a SVP-BSP, and this preamp have a lot of gain to the input of the power amp in of the SVT4PRO.

    I play fingerstyle, midrange type sound, heavy metal, rock music, so I tend to play hard sometimes. I think the cab is more for jazz and very smooth players :) .Also, there is maybe another damage speaker on that same gig!!!
    Hey jerrold, any suggestions, let me know to get the most of this puppy!!
     
  20. C-5KO

    C-5KO

    Mar 9, 2005
    Toronto, Canada
    Yes.

    I believe the theory of me pushing the cabs is the culprit. Slowly (past few years), I've been adding pedals to my setup. And while each one doesn't seem like much, I'm guessing that all of them together probably did something. Especially since I haven't been having problems until these last few weeks... before that the cabs were fine for years.

    In the past 2 years I've purchased, and use frequently, EBS Octabass, BOSS OC-3, Aphex Bass Xciter, EH Bass Microsynth, EBS BassIQ.

    The Bass Xciter is pretty much on all the time. I use the octaves for emphasis during "heavier" playing. The EH, I use as a LP Filter for "analogish" keyboard bass sounding parts.

    In the past, I was always looking for a punchier sounding 210. I think in the future I'll be looking at either adding, or replacing them with 212s.