Spector, G&L, or EBMM

[Geddy Claypool]

Based on your original premise, are you totally opposed to multi scales?

You mention wanting versatile, light weight, and a killer B string. To me, that screams something like a Dingwall NG3.

 

[kln_bc]

When you say you like narrower string spacing, how narrow are you talking about? The old G&L L-5000 crams five strings in to a normal sized bass neck, and has a fundamentally P-ish tone. The 2500 has wider string spacing (though not a full 3/4 inch spacing), and can be very heavy.

Just typical 5 string spacing. I think all 3 are in the 16.5 to 17.5 range. Not looking for anything super narrow.

 

[kln_bc]

Based on your original premise, are you totally opposed to multi scales?

You mention wanting versatile, light weight, and a killer B string. To me, that screams something like a Dingwall NG3.

I tried out some Dingwalls. They were pretty nice feeling; I liked the body shapes, but I'm not big on the fanned frets, particularly on the lowest and highest frets...feels very unnatural with how I hold the bass.

 

[MtManiac]

As mentioned G&L's distribution in Canada is patchy. There are no dealers in Saskatchewan for example. Quebec and Manitoba each have a single dealer, and there are none east of Montreal. Spector is about the same. No Saskatchewan dealers, and none in the Maritimes. Even weirder is that there are none in Ontario. There must be an interesting story why Long and McQuade, Canada's national music chain, doesn't carry them.

My take is L&M, being both the largest national dealer as well as the largest national distributor, is messing with supply for favourable terms from other vendors. They “carry” Ampeg, but not a single store in the Maritimes ever has stock of the biggest brand in bass amplification. Instead we get Ashdown, Hartke, Fender (so long as you’re ok with a rumble combo), and Traynor (of course). Yamaha seems to be on the outs - I’ve seen zero B734/735/434/435/234/235s in stock anywhere nearby, and one store had a BBP35 on the wall for easily 8-9 months with a terrible set up and a tag price over CAD$2400. Strings - good luck getting DR. No G&L unless it’s a used trade in, and when I once tried to offer my Stingray Special in in a trade they were offering $900 value. No Darkglass, no Mesa, no Aguilar, no Behringer ffs. Lots of Boss, lots of Epiphone, Squier, MIM Fender, Fender, even some FCS here and there. Some Line 6 (Yamaha), but even then specials are offered for Zoom products. Sennheiser wireless? Nope! Shure only! L&M ticks me off more than the government does tbh. Sorry, off topic rant.

 

[BGroovy]

G&L in passive and you can coax a lot of non aggressive tones. Neck profile should be Ok based on your description although the Spector may be a more perfect fit. G&L will be the best used value, you can often snag one in good shape for under $1k.

I’ve found of that list having owned all of them that Spectors fit me best. I never bonded with my MM 5HH. I loved the G&L and will probably own another one. The Spector neck, body size and contour, and string spacing just feel like home to me.

 

[poochiecheeks]

AFAIK, the only 34" scale Spector 5ers (other than a $$$$$ custom shop one) are the Euro classics, which have EMG J pickups. And those are more expensive than an EBMM Stingray Special.

The older Spector NS5CRs are top quality 34" scale 5 strings but good luck finding one under 10 lbs

 

[logdrum]

G&L L2500 750. 3/4 19mm spacing

 

[PapaBearBass]

It took me a minute to understand all of the switches and controls for my L-2500, but after I did, I really grew to love the bass. I have the CLF Research 750 version, with the wider string spacing and chunky neck, and I love it. It's like a Stingray with wider spacing and better pickups.

I literally had to draw and label a diagram of the L2000 pickups, knobs and switches. I still have to consult it every once in a while. Not a bad thing and certainly not a deal breaker. Just a lot of options to play with

 

[LowendG]

I tried out some Dingwalls. They were pretty nice feeling; I liked the body shapes, but I'm not big on the fanned frets, particularly on the lowest and highest frets...feels very unnatural with how I hold the bass.

I had an early AB1--sounded amazing, the B integration with the rest of the bass was better than any fiver I ever owned (including the L2500s). Recorded as good as any pbass. The fanned frets I think I would have eventually gotten used to (chords up high were kinda weird) but I simply could not hang with 37" to get to the lows. I'm not a big dude, I just could not get comfy on it.

 

[kln_bc]

My take is L&M, being both the largest national dealer as well as the largest national distributor, is messing with supply for favourable terms from other vendors. They “carry” Ampeg, but not a single store in the Maritimes ever has stock of the biggest brand in bass amplification. Instead we get Ashdown, Hartke, Fender (so long as you’re ok with a rumble combo), and Traynor (of course). Yamaha seems to be on the outs - I’ve seen zero B734/735/434/435/234/235s in stock anywhere nearby, and one store had a BBP35 on the wall for easily 8-9 months with a terrible set up and a tag price over CAD$2400. Strings - good luck getting DR. No G&L unless it’s a used trade in, and when I once tried to offer my Stingray Special in in a trade they were offering $900 value. No Darkglass, no Mesa, no Aguilar, no Behringer ffs. Lots of Boss, lots of Epiphone, Squier, MIM Fender, Fender, even some FCS here and there. Some Line 6 (Yamaha), but even then specials are offered for Zoom products. Sennheiser wireless? Nope! Shure only! L&M ticks me off more than the government does tbh. Sorry, off topic rant.

Oh man, don't even get me started. L&M sucks on so many levels; I can barely walk into one of their stores now without feeling dirty lol. The trade in scam they have going takes the cake....you buy from them where they make a tidy profit, then if you trade it in they fleece you on the value and mark it up for another 30% profit for themselves, and then they profit again on the item you're trading in for. Its a triple dip! And the garbage they carry in store, you can barely even test things out half the time because the setups are so bad the instruments are unplayable....not that they actually carry anything cool 99% of the time anyway. Its all noob trash with huge markups.

I have vowed to never buy from them again. Which is hard because they have bought out damn near every other store....

 

[2F/2F]

Just typical 5 string spacing. I think all 3 are in the 16.5 to 17.5 range. Not looking for anything super narrow.

I would trust EBMM quality above these others, buying sight unseen. I also think an active 2-pickup EBMM is equal to or greater than a G&L in the tonal versatility department...and that's saying something, because an L-2000/2500 is no slouch in that area. Also, the 3+2 L-2500 headstock is very unattractive IMO. Finally, G&L has cheaped out on hardware over the past 20 years, having their bridges made in Taiwan, and their tuners too, as of the past 8 years or so. G&L's tuners used to be excellent Schaller BMs. Now they're just a notch above Squier tuners.

FWIW, I'm making this recommendation as a near lifelong G&L fanatic, who owns scores of them. They just aren't what they used to be. My recent EBMM mops the floor with any recent G&L I've played or owned, in terms of the level of craftsmanship and the quality of the parts. I don't like EBMM designs anywhere near as much, though. But the EBMM bass I bought recently was a vintage reissue, taking all its elements from the Leo era in the '70s.

 

[tim gueguen]

no Behringer ffs.

That may be Behringer as much as L&M. They made a deal with Cosmo Music in Ontario for Cosmo to be their Canadian dealer, but looking at synth stuff a large chunk of it is listed as out of stock and "delivery time is unknown," making me suspect they're already moving towards Amazon being their Canadian dealer.

 

[kln_bc]

I would trust EBMM quality above these others, buying sight unseen. I also think an active 2-pickup EBMM is equal to or greater than a G&L in the tonal versatility department...and that's saying something, because an L-2000/2500 is no slouch in that area. Also, the 3+2 L-2500 headstock is very unattractive IMO. Finally, G&L has cheaped out on hardware over the past 20 years, having their bridges made in Taiwan, and their tuners too, as of the past 8 years or so. G&L's tuners used to be excellent Schaller BMs. Now they're just a notch above Squier tuners.

FWIW, I'm making this recommendation as a near lifelong G&L fanatic, who owns scores of them. They just aren't what they used to be. My recent EBMM mops the floor with any recent G&L I've played or owned, in terms of the level of craftsmanship and the quality of the parts. I don't like EBMM designs anywhere near as much, though. But the EBMM bass I bought recently was a vintage reissue, taking all its elements from the Leo era in the '70s.

When did they drop in quality? If I'm looking used anyway its something to bear in mind.

 

[2F/2F]

When did they drop in quality? If I'm looking used anyway its something to bear in mind.

They started using Taiwanese bridges and such around 2003/2004. In 2008, they briefly went to a Chinese made molded case, instead of U.S. made SKB. That was a piece of crap, and they started using decent quality G&G cases with form fitted interiors and eight metal feet in about 2010. In about 2016, they did another major cheapening, and the cases went way downhill. The G&G cases no longer used form fitted padding, went to four metal feet only, a smaller interior pocket, cheesier case hardware, and thinner basic case materials (wood, vinyl, padding, interiors). Whether G&G simply can't build a high quality case any more, or if G&L just started ordering cheaper options from G&G, I do not know.

At this time, they started using the two-way truss rod with a welded nut, which, if it breaks, means the whole neck is trash, and can't be repaired...and I've read of many breaking...but they're easier for the factory to install, because they're purchased already assembled, and just drop in to a straight-routed channel. They started using stiffening rods in their necks, which when employed in mass production, pretty much just means that the company isn't spending the money, taking the time, or employing the skill it takes to selects and handle lumber properly, and is losing a lot of money on warranty neck replacements. (FWIW, I have also heard of plenty of the post-2015 necks going bad, even with stiffening rods and two-way truss rods.)

That's also about when they stopped using Schaller tuners, and started using Taiwanese ones. The pickup baseplates went from copper to a cheaper metal around the same time. Now, they've stopped including hard cases at all, unless you get a Custom Shop instrument for $3,000 + (and even then, you still get a low to mediocre quality G&G hard case made with cheap materials and parts).

There's also the argument that as time has marched on, the last generation of American craftsmen who actually knew what the hell they were doing with hand labor has aged out or moved on to bigger and/or better guitar companies.

Some of this is industry wide, and some of it is just happening at G&L.

In short, the best quality period is before 2003, though there can still be very good ones after that. But I wouldn't touch anything after 2015, unless I planned on spending the dough to at the very least upgrade the tuners and the hard case. And I would never trust the neck – always would be afraid of it maxing out or the welded nut snapping off, as I use heavy strings.

As another way of looking at it, I probably have about 100 G&Ls. Two of these are post 2015 (and I am really not fond of one of these). Seven or eight are post 2002. So, out of the large collection, only about 10 percent are post 2002.

As yet another way of looking at it, in the past 20 years, the quality gap between the U.S. and the Tribute models has narrowed significantly, almost entirely by way of the U.S. models getting worse. Concurrently, the prices of these U.S. models have more than doubled in this time period. Point being, I would really consider a Tribute that you spruce up a bit, over a late model U.S. one. Yes, they're cheaper for a reason...but the differences between them and the new U.S. models usually do not warrant the difference in price. On the used market, things change a bit, and the price difference might be more worth it.

 

[kln_bc]

They started using Taiwanese bridges and such around 2003/2004. In 2008, they briefly went to a Chinese made molded case, instead of U.S. made SKB. That was a piece of crap, and they started using decent quality G&G cases with form fitted interiors and eight metal feet in about 2010. In about 2016, they did another major cheapening, and the cases went way downhill. The G&G cases no longer used form fitted padding, went to four metal feet only, a smaller interior pocket, cheesier case hardware, and thinner basic case materials (wood, vinyl, padding, interiors). Whether G&G simply can't build a high quality case any more, or if G&L just started ordering cheaper options from G&G, I do not know.

At this time, they started using the two-way truss rod with a welded nut, which, if it breaks, means the whole neck is trash, and can't be repaired...and I've read of many breaking...but they're easier for the factory to install, because they're purchased already assembled, and just drop in to a straight-routed channel. They started using stiffening rods in their necks, which when employed in mass production, pretty much just means that the company isn't spending the money, taking the time, or employing the skill it takes to selects and handle lumber properly, and is losing a lot of money on warranty neck replacements. (FWIW, I have also heard of plenty of the post-2015 necks going bad, even with stiffening rods and two-way truss rods.)

That's also about when they stopped using Schaller tuners, and started using Taiwanese ones. The pickup baseplates went from copper to a cheaper metal around the same time. Now, they've stopped including hard cases at all, unless you get a Custom Shop instrument for $3,000 + (and even then, you still get a low to mediocre quality G&G hard case made with cheap materials and parts).

There's also the argument that as time has marched on, the last generation of American craftsmen who actually knew what the hell they were doing with hand labor has aged out or moved on to bigger and/or better guitar companies.

Some of this is industry wide, and some of it is just happening at G&L.

In short, the best quality period is before 2003, though there can still be very good ones after that. But I wouldn't touch anything after 2015, unless I planned on spending the dough to at the very least upgrade the tuners and the hard case. And I would never trust the neck – always would be afraid of it maxing out or the welded nut snapping off, as I use heavy strings.

As another way of looking at it, I probably have about 100 G&Ls. Two of these are post 2015 (and I am really not fond of one of these). Seven or eight are post 2002. So, out of the large collection, only about 10 percent are post 2002.

As yet another way of looking at it, in the past 20 years, the quality gap between the U.S. and the Tribute models has narrowed significantly, almost entirely by way of the U.S. models getting worse. Concurrently, the prices of these U.S. models have more than doubled in this time period. Point being, I would really consider a Tribute that you spruce up a bit, over a late model U.S. one. Yes, they're cheaper for a reason...but the differences between them and the new U.S. models usually do not warrant the difference in price. On the used market, things change a bit, and the price difference might be more worth it.

Wow, you really know your G&L's! Thanks for all the info .