Squier to Fender Upgrade - Worth It?

[CPplaysBASS]

Hello Chaps,

Please forgive me if I start with some context:

I have a "big" birthday coming up next year and it's been suggested by family members that if there was a "big" present I wanted to ask for, so that everyone could gang together and get me something special, that that would be "advisable" D). But - they need some notice, hence it being mentioned now.

This coincides with a couple of other things going on in life currently.

One is, I've been having a bit of "brand-envy" since the start of the year. Last Christmas was apparently very kind to my church band bandmates and everyone now seems to turn up with superb, expensive instruments from Fender, Gibson, Taylor etc. My current collection includes nothing that cost more than about £400 new.

The other is that, presumably because I've been working hard at (re-)learning bass for the last 4 years or so (see here if interested: Picked up a bass again after 22 years...), I feel I've actually reached a place where I'm confident in my ability to play, perform, hold down a groove and so on. People are starting to comment on how good my playing is (without prompting!) and I'm starting to take more of a lead in the band simply because bandmates are asking my opinion more, using my suggestions etc. Although I was already a capable musician in other areas (singing, organ, piano, music theory) I think they've "noticed my progress", if I can put it that way. I'm now refining, rather than learning technique.

So, although I haven't decided whether I should cross my fingers for a new bass or ask for something completely different (other interests, etc.) I am starting to do a little preliminary research to see what's possible.

What I have:
95% of the time, I'm playing one or other of two basses. One is an Ibanez SR405-EMQM. It's like my "do everything, versatile" bass. It's beautiful, the neck is amazing and it's really comfortable to play. I'm very happy with it and it's not the subject of this post, but I mention it so you can see that I've got "modern bass" covered.

The other bass that I'm playing is my Squier Vintage Modified 5-string J-Bass. This was my first instrument; I always wanted a 5-string J, even back when I was 11 or 12 years old. (I just thought they were soooo cool!) I'm quite fond of it now, although, looking back, it did take me a long while to get it to produce the sound I was after. It's the one with the natural, all maple body / neck. It now wears D'Addario Pro Steels (EPS-165-5) and has had a cap switch and a series-parallel switch added to give it a little extra tonal versatility. The best bit is that my youngest daughter always turns up and dances when I slap on it - she likes the sound at least as much as I do!

What I (might) want(?):
I think I might want to upgrade from the aforementioned to an equivalent Fender J-bass. I like the look of the Player Plus Jazz Bass V (see: Fender Ultra Jazz Bass : How I purchased a LEMON) as it's available with a maple neck and seems to be sensibly priced. It would have to wear steel roundwounds of some kind to give that slappy, spanky tone. But as you can tell - I'm very unsure.

I've doing quite a lot of reading here to try and sort out some of the disparate thoughts I've had on that subject. Some of these include:

• "Now I'm playing at a decent standard, I can justify having an expensive guitar..."
• "A Fender should be even more comfortable and easy to play than a Squier..."
• "A Fender is just a Squier with a different badge on the headstock. I've just got brand-envy..."
• [Response to the above] "But I play my basses almost every day - it's OK to have nice things, even if I am just paying for the name..."
• "Steel strings may ruin that Squier yet - do I really want to ruin an instrument 3x more expensive...?"
• "Am I really good enough to justify buying a "professional" instrument?
• "Would I have to get rid of the Squier if I owned a Fender?"
• "If I'm happy with the tone of the current bass, why do I want [need] another?"

And so on.

I've also been searching the forums for information about these basses. Some of it has shown a worrying lack of QA on various Fenders recently, e.g.:
Fender Am. Prof. II Precision vs Player Precision
Should I modify my Squier or upgrade to another bass?

Other posts have reminded me that the upgrades I did to the Squier did get me the tonal colours I wanted and that the VM series basses were unusually good (and said by some to be as good as the cheaper "Fender" branded basses), e.g.:
Is MIM Fender p bass just a “better” Squier
Picked up a bass again after 22 years...

Mostly, I don't want to ask my family to contribute to a bass that doesn't give me something over and above the bass I have already. I think that a label on a headstock by itself isn't enough. Maybe ease of playing would be enough, but the Squier has been professionaly set up and plays well. Maybe having an active J-bass would be fun in the way that the Ibanez is fun. I don't know.

Can anyone help me tease out some good sense from all of the thoughts above? It'll be much appreciated if so.

Thanks in advance,

Adam.

You probably already know what you want to do already, which is what you should do. I'm going to guess that's buy the Fender even if you cannot fully justify it for solely logical reasons.

My own experience: I've owned many Fenders - US standards, Japan, Mexico. I've owned many Squiers - Indonesia and China. Some of the Squiers were just as good as some of the US Fenders. I've swapped pickups out of as many US Fenders as I have Squiers.

At the end of day, I have now have 4 gigging basses I love. All Fenders. I know in terms of playability and tone, I could find a less expensive Squier that is just as good in every way. But I grew up dreaming of playing Fenders, so pay extra for that reason alone. If I wasn't playing a Fender on stage, I'd want to play a Fender. No logic behind my decision other than just that, and I don't overthink it more than that.

Happy Birthday to you!!

 

[2strings2frets]

I’ve never owned a Squire but while I really like my Fender J player plus and my Fender P bass, I keep reaching for my Schecter custom 4.

 

[sxaxsx]

I think you should treat yourself to a trip to the music store to try some out and see if you like them better than your Squier. If you were to poll all bass players you would get an even amount of people who swear Squiers are better than Fenders, as you would people who prefer their Fenders. I'm sure being from the UK you probably have less snobbery over the must be made in America thing as someone from the USA would. So you may find the MIM bass that you suggest in the OP just what you are looking for.
FYI since you said you were a bit unsure about the MIM vs MIA debate. A common thing you hear in guitar shops in the USA is, "MIM means Made in Mexico by Mexicans, MIA means Made in America by Mexicans." Basically the two factories are only 3 and half hour drive from one another, and neither factory is building handmade works of art. They are great, only two basses I still own are Fenders, but there isn't anything magic about them, they are wood and glue and metal and all of their parts can be swapped and upgraded. I think the MIM Fender you asked about would serve you well, but just go try it out for a couple minutes first to make sure it's what you want.

 

[dland]

Honestly - I don't know. My current take on all those acronyms is that the differences must be even more subtle than the Squier / Fender differences and I don't really understand them or their significance.

What I can say is that the green "Player Plus" fiver with the maple neck (link above) caught my eye and I started wondering / lusting / NBD-ing.

I will ramble on and add few more comments for your consideration.

I have a four-string green "Player Plus" P Bass that caught my eye one day while out on walk. I love it, and play it mostly in passive mode at home... active is good when used. I use it at home, as my primary rig to practice/learn/noodle, I haven't had the urge to make any changes/mods... bought it new from our local music store and it was setup, ready to go when I walked out the door. I am very happy with the purchase

Last year, I purchased a new Squire CV 60s Jazz, from Fender, to learn how to maintain/setup a bass, and use as a modding platform. The Squire needed a fair amount of love, out of the box, before it was playable. But once it was setup, it has been a good rig. Since its arrival and after initial setup, the bridge and pickups have been replaced, along with experimenting with various string types/gauges...and it has transformed into a sweet rig. The neck/body on the Squire has a good light/nimble feel, that is really fun to play. When I go out to play, in most cases I take the Squire mainly because if something goes bad, my Fender is safe at home.

As for your decision, do your due diligence, then go with your gut instincts.

 

[Andy Marshman]

I've owned and played countless basses and several guitars over the years. In 1967, nobody used the term YOLO probably because we all believed we'd live forever in those hippy times.
Even back then, when I had my first chance to move up to a good instrument (compared to stuff from the Sears catalog) my pal used his saying "blow your brains out" and he wasn't suggesting that I kill myself. He was reinforcing the idea of get the good instrument NOW (even though it's expensive) and you'll not regret it. He was right. I had to go to my dad for the money, but I got a proper Fender P bass (did they make any overseas in the 60s? don't think so).
My advice - you've got back up to speed on the instrument, so enjoy playing something you feel is special. I have nothing against Squier or Epiphone etc and I've got a Harley Benton Rickenbacker look-alike at the moment. DO WHAT MAKES YOU FEEL HAPPY... YOLO.

 

[Ronnie Thunders]

Never look a gift horse in the mouth! What color fender?

 

[Bassamatic]

The fact is that the Squiers are now better than ever, made in an ultra-modern new factory with the latest CNC equipment. My latest Squier is a Classic Vibe Jaguar. The overall quality and sound are over the top. I have USA Fenders, and they are not better than this Squier.

Invalid Link Removed

 

[Ronnie Thunders]

You already have the squire of your dreams, now get the fender. It's like picking your favorite child

 

[thmsjordan]

I am replying here to the Is MIM Fender p bass just a “better” Squier. The post you linked to was mine so I feel a little bit of responsibility to reply if you are taking my post into account.

I lived on the East Coast of the U.S. and I am really an upright player at heart. I went to musical conservatories and lived as a professional bassist on the East Coast for many years doing orchestral, theater, and occasional tours as a sideman with several name artists and quite a few wanna be stars with enough money to hire me. I say this not to impress anyone but rather to 'impress upon you' who made those statements. Over the years I upgraded and refined my gear until I arrived at some really good stuff. Playing daily in those worlds gave me a very critical view of gear and I developed a very strict sense of what would work for me and what wouldn't. A bass had to really shine to pique my interest. I have to say that my definition of what works and what doesn't is probably critical far beyond what will work for most players, and not due to some super human skill either. It is just that I am a very critical person in some areas and even a small instrument flaw would drive me nuts after just a few dozen hours of playing. I guess what I am saying is maybe I was too severe in my assessment. I think my standards would make most players walk away shaking their heads, so don't put too much stock in what I say. I always looked for the" best of the best" in terms of what I needed so there are a lot of good instruments I would have turned my very picky nose up at. My pickiness shouldn't become your trepidation at buying a Fender and I apologize if it may have already. I would advise playing a bass 1st but once you are there, pick what feels good to you. I would feel awful if my elitist attitude caused you to miss a good bass just because I refused to accept anything less than a nearly perfect bass.

So O.P. >> Best of luck finding the right gear for you.

 

[ampeg2]

I understand the fender/squier company model.confuse and conquer...hundreds of names and models. when will it all end?

 

[satantango]

I would actually strongly suggest against trying upgrade to a MIM fender from a squier, you'd BARELY be seeing any actual hardware upgrades and the rest of the price difference is the logo. you'll probably only start seeing meaningful upgrades in the american pro line or even going to something like a Lakland Skyline.

 

[logdrum]

Re-reading your OP again, Get the American Fender.

But don't sell the Squier. Mod the Squier so it is a capable backup bass. First level the frets and maybe the same luthier can roll the edges. Then if you palm mute like me, change the bridge to something better so the adjustment screws don't hurt you. If you are a player who likes to detune on the fly, I do -- then get better tuners, but you really can leave those alone. When you more cash consider changing the electronics, maybe better posts and jacks. Maybe at that point you want to have an active bass for variety or because the Fender you got is active, then get an active preamp and lastly, you may want to change the pickups. Do it in steps as you enjoy the active bass and have a capable backup bass.

The only thing that the Squier will lack aside from the logo is that it does not have a graphite reinforced neck (or do they have now). So do not cross that line of changing the neck unless someone gave it to you for free and it better be better than the one on the Squier, because you might as well get another bass.

 

[P. Aaron]

No matter which bass you buy, remember that its tone will always be subject to varying venues, and whoever runs any extra sound for other instruments or an over all PA system. In those cases, you end up just playing the music anyway.

One can get a decent bass tone out of most modern starter instruments: Squier, MIM, CIC, and the more expensive CIJ, or USA made basses.

It's an incredibly personal choice. Your own internals are gonna give you the best feedback. If there's vanity involved, that too is personal and a perfectly natural consideration. Sometimes it's just a color combo, or a features thing.

Many times, a 'better made' bass makes it easier to get at the notes you hear in the music.

Just run the rack at music stores, and see if anything stands out.

Don't be surprised if within days of deciding and buying your next bass, you'll see some other brand that gets you thinkin'.

Happens to ALL of us. Good luck.

 

[logdrum]

When I started playing bass, I was living in the Ozarks and I met some Japanese collectors visiting the pawn shops looking for used Fenders. I only had 2 basses and one was an American Fender and the other was a Kramer. I sold the Fender and got me a used Pedulla for cheap 3 months later when I went to Boston. Back then I did not know what year my bass was. i was young, no internet and calling Fender was a long distance call. I particularly did not like it because it had old flats. The guys at West Plains music told me what to sell it for.

It took another 12 years for me to get an American Fender again and since then I never went below Japan made until I got the Squier recently, with the purpose of it being a gigging bass as I do not have a 5 string B-G bass. I was going to get a nicely equipped American Fender here but budget constraints made me look for a Squier. Things turned up great.

 

[MYLOWFREQ]

Sounds like you do not need a new bass, but you should get it.

 

[Aussie Player]

Hello Chaps,

Please forgive me if I start with some context:

I have a "big" birthday coming up next year and it's been suggested by family members that if there was a "big" present I wanted to ask for, so that everyone could gang together and get me something special, that that would be "advisable" D). But - they need some notice, hence it being mentioned now.

This coincides with a couple of other things going on in life currently.

One is, I've been having a bit of "brand-envy" since the start of the year. Last Christmas was apparently very kind to my church band bandmates and everyone now seems to turn up with superb, expensive instruments from Fender, Gibson, Taylor etc. My current collection includes nothing that cost more than about £400 new.

The other is that, presumably because I've been working hard at (re-)learning bass for the last 4 years or so (see here if interested: Picked up a bass again after 22 years...), I feel I've actually reached a place where I'm confident in my ability to play, perform, hold down a groove and so on. People are starting to comment on how good my playing is (without prompting!) and I'm starting to take more of a lead in the band simply because bandmates are asking my opinion more, using my suggestions etc. Although I was already a capable musician in other areas (singing, organ, piano, music theory) I think they've "noticed my progress", if I can put it that way. I'm now refining, rather than learning technique.

So, although I haven't decided whether I should cross my fingers for a new bass or ask for something completely different (other interests, etc.) I am starting to do a little preliminary research to see what's possible.

What I have:
95% of the time, I'm playing one or other of two basses. One is an Ibanez SR405-EMQM. It's like my "do everything, versatile" bass. It's beautiful, the neck is amazing and it's really comfortable to play. I'm very happy with it and it's not the subject of this post, but I mention it so you can see that I've got "modern bass" covered.

The other bass that I'm playing is my Squier Vintage Modified 5-string J-Bass. This was my first instrument; I always wanted a 5-string J, even back when I was 11 or 12 years old. (I just thought they were soooo cool!) I'm quite fond of it now, although, looking back, it did take me a long while to get it to produce the sound I was after. It's the one with the natural, all maple body / neck. It now wears D'Addario Pro Steels (EPS-165-5) and has had a cap switch and a series-parallel switch added to give it a little extra tonal versatility. The best bit is that my youngest daughter always turns up and dances when I slap on it - she likes the sound at least as much as I do!

What I (might) want(?):
I think I might want to upgrade from the aforementioned to an equivalent Fender J-bass. I like the look of the Player Plus Jazz Bass V (see: Fender Ultra Jazz Bass : How I purchased a LEMON) as it's available with a maple neck and seems to be sensibly priced. It would have to wear steel roundwounds of some kind to give that slappy, spanky tone. But as you can tell - I'm very unsure.

I've doing quite a lot of reading here to try and sort out some of the disparate thoughts I've had on that subject. Some of these include:

• "Now I'm playing at a decent standard, I can justify having an expensive guitar..."
• "A Fender should be even more comfortable and easy to play than a Squier..."
• "A Fender is just a Squier with a different badge on the headstock. I've just got brand-envy..."
• [Response to the above] "But I play my basses almost every day - it's OK to have nice things, even if I am just paying for the name..."
• "Steel strings may ruin that Squier yet - do I really want to ruin an instrument 3x more expensive...?"
• "Am I really good enough to justify buying a "professional" instrument?
• "Would I have to get rid of the Squier if I owned a Fender?"
• "If I'm happy with the tone of the current bass, why do I want [need] another?"

And so on.

I've also been searching the forums for information about these basses. Some of it has shown a worrying lack of QA on various Fenders recently, e.g.:
Fender Am. Prof. II Precision vs Player Precision
Should I modify my Squier or upgrade to another bass?

Other posts have reminded me that the upgrades I did to the Squier did get me the tonal colours I wanted and that the VM series basses were unusually good (and said by some to be as good as the cheaper "Fender" branded basses), e.g.:
Is MIM Fender p bass just a “better” Squier
Picked up a bass again after 22 years...

Mostly, I don't want to ask my family to contribute to a bass that doesn't give me something over and above the bass I have already. I think that a label on a headstock by itself isn't enough. Maybe ease of playing would be enough, but the Squier has been professionaly set up and plays well. Maybe having an active J-bass would be fun in the way that the Ibanez is fun. I don't know.

Can anyone help me tease out some good sense from all of the thoughts above? It'll be much appreciated if so.

Thanks in advance,

Adam.

It can be...........
I have a few Fenders but when I ventured to the 5 string, one of my starter basses was a basic Squier Affinity Jazz 5 from China in 2011. $199. Beautiful quarter sawn maple neck with rosewood better than anything I have seen MIA, proven when I later bought a MIA Jazz 5 that by comparison, just didn't have the neck feel and was heavier and less punchy so I traded it off and upgraded the Squier.
1. Wife gave it a paint job.
2. Fender American Pick ups - Growls like a bear.
3. Fender American Bridge - Much more solid than the Squier.
4. CTS pots and Switchcraft output jack.
5. SIT Med Nickle strings.

The 5 inline tuners held tune well so I left those and it sounds great, feels great and there is no point in keeping other 5's I had so I sold/traded them off. I don't favor 5 string basses these days but this is the one I kept. To qualify how good it is, my stable contains Gibson's, Fender's, Warwick and Alembic bases.

When you pick up a bass and the neck speaks to you, and the sound makes you smile and the shape and weight spoil you, you won't care what brand it is, or which model in the range it is, or what nationality the hands that made it were. You just know it is "your" bass.

 

[TheSeagoats]

My favorite bass for a long time was a red Squier Affinity P bass that I had modded to my tastes. Jazz neck, Schaller tuning pegs, Seymour Duncan Quarter Pound pickup, with plans for a Badass II bridge but there were issues sourcing them at the time I did this. I'll never let this bass go, even though it's not my main one anymore. As for brand envy, 99% of the time that's all in your head, rarely is it someone else telling you that you need something better. I bought an Ammoon jazz bass knockoff for $75 brand new and the only thing I did to it was change the tuning pegs because one of the original ones was damaged, put some electrical tape over the pickups to stop the strings from touching the magnets, and I used that bass every Sunday at a church for years. It was up there alongside a Fender MIA Telecaster, a PRS of some kind, and a few other nice instruments that rotated in and out over the years, and it always held its own and no one ever told me to play something else. I thought I was going to have to downsize my stable so I wanted a nice five string to cover anything I would need and it is what became my main bass, but both of those cheaper instruments will probably stay with me forever.

 

[DWBass]

In my limited experience, I owned a MIM and a USA. The MIM was a much better playing and sounding bass than the USA. Today's Squier's are very good basses. I, personally, would not pony up for a USA Fender.

Just my opinion!

 

[neutron619]

Crikey!

Four pages now and whilst I want to reply to everything that's been contributed to this thread (for which I continue to be really grateful - thank you all), I think I just have to pick out a few representative posts and add some thoughts to those, or we're all going to be here repeating ourselves for a long time!

So:

Just going by the information in original post, it seems to me that the primary motivation is impressing others, especially fellow church band members, with a "genuine" name brand instrument of "traditional" pedigree.

IME, you're probably not going to get a Hallelujah Chorus when you pick up a Fender compared to your Squier (I didn't), but if you want to scratch that itch, get the Fender.

I guess I have to say, I don't want this to be "it". I haven't typically been someone who is swayed by branding over function, and I do feel the duty to my family that others have noted that I probably shouldn't get myself into the position of asking for something which turns out to be a "meh" gift.

Notwithstanding all the comments saying "go try some" which I can and will do and which will answer the question definitively, I guess I'd be sad if there wasn't something more than the decal saying a different name, although there do seem to be a lot of folk here warning me that it might be that way. I want a Fender to be a smoother, more beautiful, playable ("languid"??) instrument than it's Squier equivalent because otherwise I'll feel I've been sold a pipe dream. Sometimes disappointed expectations can be worse than a real, tangible disappointment(!). At this stage, I'm going to keep an open mind and try to blag my way into a testing session at my local shop.

All that said, there's a certain irony I can't escape here. Without naming names or places, I have to say that our chap with the £3000 Taylor acoustic isn't exactly the most musical member of the band. He has trouble remembering to tune the guitar (why, Lord, did you make him think "that's the one" when he was looking at a 12-string!? ) and it basically goes downhill from there. The other Fender-wielding chaps / chapesses are talented but not necessarily amazingly so or confident with it. Together, we make a good sound, but there is probably something of an inverse correlation between "cost of instrument" and musical ability. (Our pianist is amazing, and borrows her piano at no cost, so it must be true!)

Never look a gift horse in the mouth! What color fender?

At this point, I think it's got to be a green fiver, with a maple neck. As I said above, I can still picture that catalogue from "Way Back When" and it was a forest green fiver of some kind. I think that's probably not my colour, but for now, green of some kind. And thanks for the reminder / motivation, by the way!

I am replying here to the Is MIM Fender p bass just a “better” Squier. The post you linked to was mine so I feel a little bit of responsibility to reply if you are taking my post into account.

...

My pickiness shouldn't become your trepidation at buying a Fender and I apologize if it may have already.

Rest assured, you haven't put me off. If I ruled the world (or owned it, more to the point) I'd have had a Fender as my first bass - but I didn't know, four years ago, whether after 22 years, it was going to be a passing fancy that lasted 6 weeks, or what it turned out to be, which was something of a homecoming to an instrument I wish I'd carried on when I started. On that basis, I couldn't justify spending big bucks on a top-of-the-range bass I might not use. Now, maybe...

All that aside, I'll keep the Squier. You've persuaded me. And it is really, really bright with all that maple, spanky steel strings and a small cap in it.

Thanks again for all of the insights, thoughts and contributions.

 

[Baker69]

As you say, your church buddies all have the big names on the headstocks of their instruments and it’s very very hard not resist the temptation to follow suit and envy is not very good for us Christians!

Personally I’ve never owned a Squier bass of any description, after a couple of cheap starter basses I went straight for a Fender USA P Bass and it was my only bass for many years. In more recent years however I’ve had both MIM and USA Jazz Basses and even though I modded my MIM Jazz with new pots, wiring and Custom Shop Pickups it was never ever a match for my Fender Professional Jazz Bass (which I still have and play today), the build quality was good on the MIM but there’s just something about the whole package of a Fender USA bass in my opinion is worth the extra cost, ok IMHO I don’t think they should be that more expensive but they are and that’s it, we pays our money and makes our choice as the saying goes.

If you wish to consider other makes of basses I would have a look at Sire. I have a Sire P7 5 string and it’s superb, Sire are becoming quite a name these days (and rightly so), and by no means are they a cheap copy bass. For less than the price of a Fender Player Bass you are getting an 18 volt active bass with a 3 band EQ with mid sweep, active/passive switch, through body stringing, rolled edge fingerboard with binding, decent high mass bridge, block inlays and a bone nut! Also have a look at the Sire models like the V5 with roasted necks - beautiful!