Double Bass Staccato pizz???

[AndersLasson]

Dear double bass friends,

We are playing Serenade for String Orchestra (op. 20) by Edward Elgar. In the last four measures of the first movement, the double basses shall play staccato pizzicato quarter notes, see below. How to do that? Just keep the notes short? Dampen the notes with the unused left hand fingers à la Rocco Prestia? Palm muting ;-)? Something else?

BR, Anders

 

[AndersLasson]

Or is it me misunderstanding something?

 

[Wasnex]

A pizz note can ring and decay naturally or you can cut it off. This appears to indicate cutting the notes off quickly. Discuss the duration with the section leader or conductor. The music does not specify the technique used for muting. I would probably use the fingers on both hands for a sharp cutoff, and left hand only for a more gentle cutoff.

Palm muting would be unusual for double bass IMHO.

 

[Wasnex]

In this performance those notes are allowed to ring a bit and then cut off. They players appear to mute with left hand only.

 

[jj.833]

I was taught generally not to shorten orchestral pizz - just pizz the note and let it decay even longer than the written length of the note. (Unless it messes with the harmony, which it usually doesn't). In the given case, I'd guess that author's idea was to play shortest notes possible.
I don't think there will be much difference between dampened and decayed pizz note in ppp.

 

[AGCurry]

Just do whatever works, whether coming back to the string with your RH finger or muting with left hand, to prevent the notes from ringing. With the dynamic marking, it seems that the composer/editor wanted just the "suggestion" of a percussive note.

 

[Wasnex]

I was taught generally not to shorten orchestral pizz - just pizz the note and let it decay even longer than the written length of the note. (Unless it messes with the harmony, which it usually doesn't). In the given case, I'd guess that author's idea was to play shortest notes possible.
I don't think there will be much difference between dampened and decayed pizz note in ppp.

I suggest asking the conductor how the markings should be interpreted. The players seem to let the notes ring for the full value...AFAIK more tenuto than staccato. Interpretation of what the markings mean can vary.

 

[the_Ryan]

Damp the notes with the left hand, I usually prefer using the higher-numbered non-playing fingers to mute the string rather than just lifting the string up since it's a slightly more gradual muting.

I was taught generally not to shorten orchestral pizz - just pizz the note and let it decay even longer than the written length of the note. (Unless it messes with the harmony, which it usually doesn't). In the given case, I'd guess that author's idea was to play shortest notes possible.
I don't think there will be much difference between dampened and decayed pizz note in ppp.

It kind of depends, most pizzes in orchestral music are written as just eighth notes or quarter notes with rests because the upper strings' pizzes don't really sustain and you have to figure out the actual duration of the notes based on musical context: if the celli are also pizz the pizzes should probably be played with the written duration, but if the celli are arco and playing long notes or legato it might be acceptable to play longer than the written duration.

A bit of an aside: when a conductor asks for pizzes to be vibrated, usually what they actually want is for them to be sustained longer than their written value, and requesting that the string section vibrate the pizzes forces that to happen because vibrating the sustain of a plucked note forces the left hand to keep the note ringing.

 

[Bruce Calin]

I've played for conductors who wanted pizz vibrato for anything longer than an eighth note and others who wanted no vibrato for pizz ever- different strokes.

 

[DoubleBassBass]

I play this with the fleshy side part of the thumb around the octave (mid string) to get a delicate warm tone that is ppp …and listening to what the strings are doing . With the open A and E, slide the fingers from the nut onto the string to naturally dampen accordingly. The notes want to be definitely placed, but under the strings and not ring out after the strings have lifted their bows off the string. So this is not a staccato pizz with attack but indicated with a dot so as to not ring. Think of it as a mellow ‘plunk’.

 

[AndersLasson]

Thanks for all help!
We ended up playing the notes to the indicated length and used left hand damping to stop it to ring longer than that.