Steinberger XT-25 Pickups

[ardilla]

Hello all, I wanted to replace the pickups on my XT-25 Spirit with some actives. I've searched for 2 days trying to find if there's anything that will fit without routing. I've seen some stuff on the XZ-25's being the same size as the XZ-2, but information is scarce on the XT version. Does anybody know what will work? Or is routing the only option??

Thanks

 

[raymondl3]

Kind of late to respond, but a couple options that come to mind are EMG35s (they have several models within the 35 series) and Bartolini M3. The EMG are a blade design so they should work for a narrow 5 and I was told that the Bartolini is a blade design by the guy at bestbassgear.

 

[Michael Vee]

Ardilla, there is quite a bit of info on Talkbass from a few years back available via search. Also, check the Steinberger World Yahoo Group. A lot of those postings were done by me.

There is no difference at all between XZ and XT pickups or electronics for either the 4-string or 5-string basses. They are all exactly the same, size, configuration, everything. They use EMG Select guitar-sized humbuckers. There are a number of replacement options made for bass, and you can also use any standard guitar humbucker.

My current XZ pickups/electronics:

XZ-25: Stock pickups, Stan Hinesley electronics
XZ-2: EMG HBCS pickups, EMG BTC control set
XZ-25F (for sale): Stock pickups, Audere 3ZB electronics

 

[ric stave]

I just picked up an XZ-25 that was 'upgraded' to active EMGs (a DC and a CS, I believe prob 35's). I don't believe any routing was needed. The compartment is kinda tight with 2 9v in there now (for 18v operation) - it'd be nice to have a seperate battery compartment routed into the back of the bass, and then there'd be room to upgrade to some other preamp, but after owning this same model bass before with the stock pickups, this is a huge improvement already.

 

[Michael Vee]

No, those EMG actives are longer than the stock pickups, so the cavities were routed.

 

[ric stave]

No, those EMG actives are longer than the stock pickups, so the cavities were routed.

Possible - I haven't taken the pickup surrounds off to check it out - if they were, it was a nice job.

 

[SGD Lutherie]

If they use the guitar size Selects, then you want the EMG HB. That was the original Steinberger pickup.

It is exactly the same size as a guitar humbucker. The 35 is longer.

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Originally known as the EMG-SS, the HB was developed for Steinberger Sound. It is a P-Style Pickup in a guitar humbucking housing. It has exactly the same features and specifications as the current P model. It is recommended for bass guitars with a string width of less than 2 inches. The HB has been replaced with the 35 Extended Series Bass Pickups as a production equivalent.

 

[raymondl3]

I have an XQ25 that requires the same pickup dimensions, 1.5" X 3.5. I was considering the EMG HB until I read this from Steinberger World.
The narrow 5 string dilemma

"When Ned was introducing his 5 string version of the L2 they realized the pickups they had been using wouldn't work. The early 5's (L2/5 & XL25) were basically a 5 string bridge and headpiece mounted on a standard 4 string width neck (Click here for more info on the narrow 5 bridge).

The story we've gotten from Rob Turner (founder & president of EMG) is that the original SS magnetic structure left too big of a dead zone under the middle A string on the original L2/5. So the magnet & coil design was tweaked for better coverage in the middle. This redesigned model became the IV-V (Roman numerals 4-5) and replaced the production bass humbucker pickups. After that point Steinberger assembled all their basses with the I-IV as a "universal" pickup, regardless of what bridge was being installed. Much easier for manufacturing and production - make one type of pickup, ship one type of pickup, and install one type of pickup. It also lets you swap bridges in existing basses with no hassles.

The factory installed HB pickups that can accommodate the narrow 5 spacing have a "IV-V" sticker on the back of them. Remember that these bass humbuckers are not a true humbucker, but a P style split coil put into a guitar humbucking housing. On a narrow 5 with the original HB, the middle string (usually A) sits on the end of the magnets and sounds "dead". One magnet on the IV-V is extended a little in the middle so the string is covered.


Close-up of the IV-V sticker from the HB pictured above

From mid 80's through the early 90's the IV-V's are common on all Steinberger basses. Once Gibson stopped offering the narrow 5 option they just put in straight HB's. If you are replacing HB's on a narrow 5, be sure to custom order a Steinberger style IV-V HB from EMG. They do offer this but only as a custom order (this is not mentioned anywhere on their website anywhere)."

They do however offer several other pickups in that size.

 

[gidbass]

No, those EMG actives are longer than the stock pickups, so the cavities were routed.

You are correct, the stock pickups are shorter, but the existing routes under the metal pickup ring are the exact dimensions of the 35. The only thing that had to be routed, were the "ears" (for lack of a better term) that were in the corners where the pickup ring screws mounted too. I sanded those off using a dremel and the 35's dropped right into place.

Ric - I hope you are enjoying that bass...

 

[SGD Lutherie]

I have an XQ25 that requires the same pickup dimensions, 1.5" X 3.5.

That's EMG-35 size, not the HB size.

The story we've gotten from Rob Turner (founder & president of EMG) is that the original SS magnetic structure left too big of a dead zone under the middle A string on the original L2/5.

That will happen with any split coil pickup designed for 4 strings and used on a 5. Each coil covers 2 strings, so the A string will sit in that gap between coils.

 

[raymondl3]

That's EMG-35 size, not the HB size.

Ahhh....thank you. I did not know that.

 

[ectoflanger]

This is way late- but in case someone is still looking to upgrade, EMG 35's will fit with some routing out of the cavity corners where the original pickup rings go. You can use the EMG 8 string guitar pickup ring for cosmetic trim since there is some excess space on ends of the cavity with the 35. Note that the 35 has nearly identical dimensions as the 8 string pickup-

Aring quick note about improving the sound- You need to do some routing to get a better sound because part of the problem is that the stock pickups were sized for a four string model with 2 inch string spacing. For the XT-25
you need a minimum coil width of 2.9 inches according to the EMG guidelines, being that the string width low to hight string at the bridge is 2.5 inches. The 35 with it's 2.9 inch coil length accommodates this as opposed to the four string HB models with the 2.4 inch overall coil length.

I reiterate that the 8 string pickup rings aided my rather paltry sum of routine skills and the excessive slack on the left and right side of the pickup cavities. I used 1/2 inch thick rubber backing I got from Amazon https://a.co/d/8lJs8au and 1 1/2 inch long #4 screws I managed to find at Lowes. Home Depot sells them as well. The 1 1/4 ones that came with the pickups weren't long enough for the Steinberger cavity.

The guideline for string to coil width is as follows: Coil length should equal string width is twice the distance of the string height above the pickup. For example a string width of 2.5 inches with string height of 3/16 would require a coil length of 2.5 + 2(3/16) or 2.5 is .375 = 2.875

Here you see mine with the 35 J in the neck and the 35 JX-CS pickup in the bridge. These quiet single coil J style soap bars are warm and mellow in tone. Absolutely love how the tone was improved.

I also added the 35 JX in the neck postion and 35 DC humbucker in the bridge position of my white XT-25 after disappointing results with EMG 8 string pickups (seen in gold). I would say that the JX and DC models sound good but not as warm and mellow as the J and JX-CS in the black one.

 

[ectoflanger]

For those of you who have the XT series I found a solution for hard turning tuners. Some guy on YouTube replace the original silicone washers on the tuning knobs with specialty ball bearings available on Amazon-



Amazon link-

Amazon.com

 

[Marcus Araz]

This is way late- but in case someone is still looking to upgrade, EMG 35's will fit with some routing out of the cavity corners where the original pickup rings go. You can use the EMG 8 string guitar pickup ring for cosmetic trim since there is some excess space on ends of the cavity with the 35. Note that the 35 has nearly identical dimensions as the 8 string pickup-

Aring quick note about improving the sound- You need to do some routing to get a better sound because part of the problem is that the stock pickups were sized for a four string model with 2 inch string spacing. For the XT-25
you need a minimum coil width of 2.9 inches according to the EMG guidelines, being that the string width low to hight string at the bridge is 2.5 inches. The 35 with it's 2.9 inch coil length accommodates this as opposed to the four string HB models with the 2.4 inch overall coil length.

I reiterate that the 8 string pickup rings aided my rather paltry sum of routine skills and the excessive slack on the left and right side of the pickup cavities. I used 1/2 inch thick rubber backing I got from Amazon https://a.co/d/8lJs8au and 1 1/2 inch long #4 screws I managed to find at Lowes. Home Depot sells them as well. The 1 1/4 ones that came with the pickups weren't long enough for the Steinberger cavity.

The guideline for string to coil width is as follows: Coil length should equal string width is twice the distance of the string height above the pickup. For example a string width of 2.5 inches with string height of 3/16 would require a coil length of 2.5 + 2(3/16) or 2.5 is .375 = 2.875

Here you see mine with the 35 J in the neck and the 35 JX-CS pickup in the bridge. These quiet single coil J style soap bars are warm and mellow in tone. Absolutely love how the tone was improved.

View attachment 5216314

I also added the 35 JX in the neck postion and 35 DC humbucker in the bridge position of my white XT-25 after disappointing results with EMG 8 string pickups (seen in gold). I would say that the JX and DC models sound good but not as warm and mellow as the J and JX-CS in the black one.

View attachment 5216350 View attachment 5216351

Do you have sound samples for these please?

 

[ectoflanger]

Do you have sound samples for these please?

Not at the moment but perhaps I could sit down and do some recordings in Logic Pro and export a couple of .wav files. I will say this though- there was a dramatic improvement switching to the EMG actives. Also there is a guy on YouTube who upgraded his XT-25 to EMG 40's but you don't need them that wide and you would have to be very skilled to route the cavities accurately because there would be no allowance for a trim ring to cover any mistakes as far as I know-

Here's a clip where someone put active EMG 40's for now -

 

[crazycloud]

^^ Thanks for that, it's exactly the sound I have in my head for most bass. I love EMGs.
I have 5 EMG35s in a box looking for a home and 2 of the DCs look like they've be going into the Hohner V.

I'm trying to get down to a very few basses and sounding that good the Hohner would not just be a 'travel' (I can carry it on my bike) or practice bass, but genuinely useful backup/alternative too.

Just need to get the 3 pin connectors - I have a Digikey/Mouser order to go in and I'm sure I've seen them there to save ordering just them from EMG.

 

[Marcus Araz]

Not at the moment but perhaps I could sit down and do some recordings in Logic Pro and export a couple of .wav files. I will say this though- there was a dramatic improvement switching to the EMG actives. Also there is a guy on YouTube who upgraded his XT-25 to EMG 40's but you don't need them that wide and you would have to be very skilled to route the cavities accurately because there would be no allowance for a trim ring to cover any mistakes as far as I know-

Here's a clip where someone put active EMG 40's for now -

Thank you a lot.
emg40 dc bridge
emg40tw neck
emg bts control preamp

I have tried this mod on XT 25 with EMG 35TWX due to its narrow string spacing. Someone from EMG said it should work; however, the sound was nothing like an EMG 40TWX. I have used 40TWX on a custom-built bass, and it sounds very good. This video sounds very good, too. but the lows are nowhere close to a Bartolini soapbar humbucker

 

[Marcus Araz]

^^ Thanks for that, it's exactly the sound I have in my head for most bass. I love EMGs.
I have 5 EMG35s in a box looking for a home and 2 of the DCs look like they've be going into the Hohner V.

I'm trying to get down to a very few basses and sounding that good the Hohner would not just be a 'travel' (I can carry it on my bike) or practice bass, but genuinely useful backup/alternative too.

Just need to get the 3 pin connectors - I have a Digikey/Mouser order to go in and I'm sure I've seen them there to save ordering just them from EMG.

Yes, but not perfect, you should hear how my Bartolini soapbar humbucker pickups sound on lower frequencies. EMG can't come closer even with the active preamp bass boost. I wish I had both in one bass but not happening. If you want Jazz Bass style single coil dynamic pull sound, you need to compromise on lows.

 

[crazycloud]

Yes, but not perfect, you should hear how my Bartolini soapbar humbucker pickups sound on lower frequencies.

I've had lots of Barts, both US and import versions, and I don't agree at all.

EMG can't come closer even with the active preamp bass boost.

Yes they can and I've been using EMGs since 86 - I don't think there's ever been a time since then I haven't had EMGs in at least one of my basses.

If you want Jazz Bass style single coil dynamic pull sound, you need to compromise on lows.

No, you don't. You're misunderstanding that a PU with a more extended high frequency response sounds brighter (see Fletcher Munson) because of the wider bandwidth. Magnetic PUs are all flat in the lower end of their spectrum, because of the way they work.

 

[Marcus Araz]

I've had lots of Barts, both US and import versions, and I don't agree at all.

Yes they can and I've been using EMGs since 86 - I don't think there's ever been a time since then I haven't had EMGs in at least one of my basses.

No, you don't. You're misunderstanding that a PU with a more extended high frequency response sounds brighter (see Fletcher Munson) because of the wider bandwidth. Magnetic PUs are all flat in the lower end of their spectrum, because of the way they work.

I think I wasn't clear enough. I am talking about the B string on 5-string models. I recently built a bass with 40 TWX and a BTC preamp. Overall sound is very good up to the E string. The B string sound is much better than a Fender Ultra I/II Jass Bass but not same with Bartolini's. These bartolini pickups are from 1996.