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Strange Singer - WTH ?
- Thread starter buzzbass
- Start date
Learn the tunes, the way they/she wants. Don't complain. Make the gig your b***h. Expect no one to thank you.
OR
Skip it. I've done either, depending on how bad my skin crawled.
OR
Skip it. I've done either, depending on how bad my skin crawled.
Our female lead singer does "Don't Stop Believin'" in the original key (E). Steve Perry is a male tenor, I can't imagine him exceeding the range of even the average female singing voice.
I agree with others who state you have to give it a shot as requested. Please report back and let us know the results.
I agree with others who state you have to give it a shot as requested. Please report back and let us know the results.
Yeah, this is common fare. I think this is really where 5 string basses shine because you basically just move your hand a few semitones left or right and you're set to go.
Let me explain: different "E-songs" may have different vocal ranges. And usually have.
For example, i just took two Eb-minor songs of my playlist - "Bulletproof" by La Roux and "Die Young" by Black Sabbath. "Bulletproof" has Db to Bb range and "Die Young" has lower Bb to higher Db range (Dio vs La Roux - 1:0
).OK, i'll try to find something more alike. OK, two G-minor songs: "Everybody's Gotta Learn Sometimes" by Beck and "Over" by Upstation. Both are mellow songs with male vocals. First one has Bb to C range and the second has C to G range.
Enough examples, i guess. Just remember: key has little to do with vocal range of the song. Think about it: there isn't any rules such as "melody can't go higher than tonic note" or any other note of the key. It depends on song.
So it's totally understandable that vocalist may want to transpose two different "E-songs" differently: one song may be too high for her, the other may not.
Your profile says that you play 5-string basses so you shouldn't have any problem with transposing cover songs. And if some song relies on open strings heavily (most metal, for example), you can use capo, like i do sometimes.
5-string+capo=ready to cover anything.
jive1
Commercial User
Here's a simple analogy.
A song is in E. But you play on the 12 fret up.
Another song is in G, but you play only in third position.
E is the 'lower' key, but the notes are played in a higher register. G may be a 'higher' key (or much lower depending on how you look at it), but the notes you play are on a lower register.
Notes are notes, regardless of instrument.
A song is in E. But you play on the 12 fret up.
Another song is in G, but you play only in third position.
E is the 'lower' key, but the notes are played in a higher register. G may be a 'higher' key (or much lower depending on how you look at it), but the notes you play are on a lower register.
Notes are notes, regardless of instrument.
No, I'm going to go with it. It looks like a really fun gig. The audition is tonite. I was more curious as to the "whys". Like I said before, I can't sing worth a crap, so I had no clue.
Let me explain: different "E-songs" may have different vocal ranges. And usually have.
For example, i just took two Eb-minor songs of my playlist - "Bulletproof" by La Roux and "Die Young" by Black Sabbath. "Bulletproof" has Db to Bb range and "Die Young" has lower Bb to higher Db range (Dio vs La Roux - 1:0
OK, i'll try to find something more alike. OK, two G-minor songs: "Everybody's Gotta Learn Sometimes" by Beck and "Over" by Upstation. Both are mellow songs with male vocals. First one has Bb to C range and the second has C to G range.
Enough examples, i guess. Just remember: key has little to do with vocal range of the song. Think about it: there isn't any rules such as "melody can't go higher than tonic note" or any other note of the key. It depends on song.
So it's totally understandable that vocalist may want to transpose two different "E-songs" differently: one song may be too high for her, the other may not.
Your profile says that you play 5-string basses so you shouldn't have any problem with transposing cover songs. And if some song relies on open strings heavily (most metal, for example), you can use capo, like i do sometimes.
5-string+capo=ready to cover anything.
I've made it a habit over the years to learn as many songs as I can without using any open strings. That way I can just slide things up or down the neck. It's creating weirdness for my ears, more so than anything else. And yes, 5 strings are a gift from God.
I understand the need for some vocalists to transpose songs to suit their ranges. But I also subsribe to the theory that different keys 'paint different colors' i.e. sound different.
I had a cover band years ago that always did Jumping JackFlash in E. They could never get it to sound right, since its in G.
One group I support now had this discusssion with the horn player a few weeks back. They wanted to do Into The Mystic by Van Morrision in E. It is actually in Eb. They then decided that they would do it in the right key. Then all three non bass and horn guys wanted to detune guitars to do this. I see a 1/2hour break coming while they struggle with this.
I suggested a capo up one with a D shape or up three with a C shape.
We did all agree with the horn player that it should be played in the original keys so it sounds right, and I generally suggest to cover bands I work with that we retain the original keys as much as possible unless there are compelling reasons to change them. Inabilty of the vocalist to deliver in that key I would consider compelling if (s)he can deliver it effectively in another key without range difficulty.
Play it by ear, I'd be interested in what your thoughts are afterwords.
I had a cover band years ago that always did Jumping JackFlash in E. They could never get it to sound right, since its in G.
One group I support now had this discusssion with the horn player a few weeks back. They wanted to do Into The Mystic by Van Morrision in E. It is actually in Eb. They then decided that they would do it in the right key. Then all three non bass and horn guys wanted to detune guitars to do this. I see a 1/2hour break coming while they struggle with this.
I suggested a capo up one with a D shape or up three with a C shape.
We did all agree with the horn player that it should be played in the original keys so it sounds right, and I generally suggest to cover bands I work with that we retain the original keys as much as possible unless there are compelling reasons to change them. Inabilty of the vocalist to deliver in that key I would consider compelling if (s)he can deliver it effectively in another key without range difficulty.
Play it by ear, I'd be interested in what your thoughts are afterwords.
Well, me too, escpecially since i've gone 5-string. But as i said, some songs are just unplayable without certain open notes.
But of course i try to avoid capo when possible: in my current band we have two covers, both in DropD tuning. First one i play without capo, though it's somewhat harder than in original, but the second one (My Own Summer by Deftones) requires the capo, as it has part like this on open D (yes, i know that it's DropC# originally, but we play it in DropD):
D: -0-7-8-0-8-5-0-5-0-5-7-0-8-4-...
Sorry about offtopic
I totally agree. But i guess nobody transpose the songs without valid reason ("i can't sing it in the original key"). Or am i wrong?Thor said:
Well I orignally learned to play the song working in a trio with an old style Jazz Pianist around 30 years ago (he was known as the "Poor Man's Oscar Peterson" around the Portsmouth/Southampton area in those days - Ray Ember was his name) and he played it in Ab and he probably had a reason - I don't play piano, so I can't comment on that.
I learned an awful lot form that guy, he would shout a key and count off without calling the tune - does wonders for your ear!. At the end I'd sometimes ask him - what was that one called?.
I'd say the point to make in this thread is that I'm just the Bass player, the key ain't my call!
Buzzbass, I think what you have here is a good situation. Quite the opposite of diva behavior. This person sounds like they know their limitations and work with that.
Would you rather have a singer that refuses to believe they sound like crap?
Go for it.
Would you rather have a singer that refuses to believe they sound like crap?
Go for it.
There's nothing magical about the key a song is in. It was chosen because the original singer was comfortable with that key. New singer, different vocal range, different key. Male song, female singer, different vocal range, different key.
Now it may wreak havoc on the guitars if the original was played with open string chords. But its less disruptive than making the singer go outside their vocal range. People will notice that, they won't likely notice the song is in a different key, even if the guitar players have to play the chords differently to compensate for no open strings. They'll definitely not notice if you capo or downtune.
As far as the bass goes, shouldn't be an issue, always try to avoid open strings so you can transpose at the drop of a dime.
It just knocks out too many songs if you insist on doing them all in the original keys, there are so many different singers out there, one vocalist can't cover them all in the same keys.
Randy
Now it may wreak havoc on the guitars if the original was played with open string chords. But its less disruptive than making the singer go outside their vocal range. People will notice that, they won't likely notice the song is in a different key, even if the guitar players have to play the chords differently to compensate for no open strings. They'll definitely not notice if you capo or downtune.
As far as the bass goes, shouldn't be an issue, always try to avoid open strings so you can transpose at the drop of a dime.
It just knocks out too many songs if you insist on doing them all in the original keys, there are so many different singers out there, one vocalist can't cover them all in the same keys.
Randy
Do I assume that the first line of the New Zealand National Anthem isn't:
"God Save our Gracious Queen." anymore then?.
(I wonder what key Brian May plays it in?)
I sing Crazy Little Thing Called Love in "C" BTW.
The transposed songs sounded fine, in that we played them well. The "ear weirdness" is/was still there for me though. The audition went well, I'm hoping they ask me back.
I asked why during the audition, and this is pretty much what she said. After hearing her sing, I believe that she truely does know her "instrument" and what it is capable of. If asked to join, I will adapt...gladly
