String gauge recommendation for Bass VI tuned octave higher than 6 string bass

[BunchyMutt]

I have a Harley Benton GuitarBass VS inbound (essentially a Bass VI). I want to tune it an octave higher than a regular B0-C3 six string bass, so B1-C4.

I don't have much experience at all playing guitar, but I know pounds of tension differs significantly between bass and guitar.

Am I on the right track with looking at strings that are roughly .060-.042-.030-.020-.016-.011 for a 30" scale?

 

[HelpImaRock]

You'll want to start with 9-42.

 

[ChristoMephisto]

Could try aim for about 20-25lbs tension for each string.
Maybe 60-44-32-24 for the BEAD portion and you may have to calculate the last two. I have a 8 string with octaves so I use guitar strings when I can. They fit a 30"

 

[HelpImaRock]

You'll want to start with 9-42.

Disregard this, you want to tune it like a baritone. These are the strings I used when I tuned my 30" scale Dano Baritone to B:

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[HaphAsSard]

You'll want to start with 9-42.

Disregard this, you want to tune it like a baritone.

Yeah, those would be fine if the OP wanted to tune to regular, Spanish E2-e4.

.060-.042-.030-.020-.016-.011

I'd bump the D up to .022, and drop the G to .015; or

60-44-32-24 for the BEAD portion

plus a .016 and a .012; or this:

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[HelpImaRock]

Yeah, those would be fine if the OP wanted to tune to regular, Spanish E2-e4.

You saw my next post where I suggested the proper gauge.

 

[HaphAsSard]

You saw my next post where I suggested the proper gauge.

(I also quoted it, twice.) Hence my "yeah". It could be of interest to present and future readers to know that a VI can be tuned all the way to standard, guitar E-e with the appropriate gauges.

 

[iiipopes]

Could try aim for about 20-25lbs tension for each string.
Maybe 60-44-32-24 for the BEAD portion and you may have to calculate the last two. I have a 8 string with octaves so I use guitar strings when I can. They fit a 30"

Um, basses tuned like the original Fender Bass VI are EADGBE, like a guitar one octave down. So I agree: either 9-42 or even 8-38 because of the longer scale, and hope nothing breaks from the tension.

 

[mikeoso]

(. a VI can be tuned all the way to standard, guitar E-e with the appropriate gauges.

And when it is, does it become a long-scale guitar?

There are many 27-30 inch scale baritone guitars built to be tuned B-b or A-a, that can also be tuned E-e with the right strings. I keep wondering if there's really a hard line between guitar, baritone guitar, bass VI, and bass. And then there's piccolo bass...six string piccolo? Guitar? Does it just depend on how you tune it and how you play it? Is what you CALL it the important thing? "Yeah, it has six strings tuned B-b, or E-e, but it's NOT a guitar, it's a BASS!"

I'm not stupid, but I may be crazy.

 

[HelpImaRock]

And when it is, does it become a long-scale guitar?

There are many 27-30 inch scale baritone guitars built to be tuned B-b or A-a, that can also be tuned E-e with the right strings. I keep wondering if there's really a hard line between guitar, baritone guitar, bass VI, and bass. And then there's piccolo bass...six string piccolo? Guitar? Does it just depend on how you tune it and how you play it? Is what you CALL it the important thing? "Yeah, it has six strings tuned B-b, or E-e, but it's NOT a guitar, it's a BASS!"

I'm not stupid, but I may be crazy.

My answer is "no, it's a spectrum".

 

[mikeoso]

My answer is "no, it's a spectrum".

I like that! Sensible!

 

[HaphAsSard]

My answer is "no, it's a spectrum".

^ Agree with this.
Case in point, the same 30" platform is a baritone or a VI depending on the tuning, which determines not merely the register, but also the approach re the lowest notes: an A-a or B-b baritone can more or less retain the same chord shapes as standard guitar everywhere on the neck, whereas the lowest chord shapes (campfire E and Emin, G and the like) do not sound good on a VI because of their lowest intervals being too narrow for the bass register (their constituent pitches fall within the same critical band, which the basal membrane does not like).
Ergo, chords near the nut on a VI had better have one or two unplayed strings between the lowest note and the second-lowest - or, even better, the lowest notes on a VI, as with normal basses (same with piano, in that register, for that matter), work best when played one at a time. And this comes into effect (or ceases to be) the moment one restrings the same exact 30"-scale guitar from baritone to VI tuning (and viceversa).

 

[Deleted member 271037]

You can forget about 009-042 or any other regular guitar gauges. They're not designed for the tension you get with a 30" scale (and you probably won't even find any that are long enought for a 30" scale).

What you're describing is really just a B-tuning baritone guitar with the two highest strings tuned a half step higher.

Your best option would probably to start with a baritone set and maybe get slightly different gauges for the G and C if they don't feel right but like I said, they're will only be tuned a half step higher so I'm sure they can handle the tension.

 

[HaphAsSard]

You can forget about 009-042 or any other regular guitar gauges. They're not designed for the tension you get with a 30" scale (and you probably won't even find any that are long enought for a 30" scale).

They absolutely can withstand the tension on a 30" scale (even the most fragile, the .009" plain can be tuned to high G4 on a 12-string guitar, which is the near exact equivalent of tuning one to E4 on a 30") and, if the 30"-scale instrument in question has a smaller, not in-line headstock, like mine, normal guitar strings from at least some manufacturers (D'Addario, GHS) are plenty long.
Again, this is indeed off topic given the OP, but it won't hurt to point out, to the benefit of the odd passer-by.

 

[HelpImaRock]

I like that! Sensible!

Earlier, I posted "when I tuned my 30" Dano Baritone to B, I used these strings...". That Dano is now tuned E-E as a Bass Six. 28" scale guitars generally don't do it for me. I play a lot in Open C, on guitars strung 11-50. If I want lower than that, 13-56 does just fine.

 

[Jon Moody]

58-46-32-24-18w (or 15p)-11 would give you roughly a 20-25lb per string tension, and will have no issue with the scale. I'd start there, and adjust gauges as needed.

 

[Jon Moody]

You can forget about 009-042 or any other regular guitar gauges. They're not designed for the tension you get with a 30" scale (and you probably won't even find any that are long enought for a 30" scale).

Most guitar strings have a 39"-42" winding length, so the scale won't be an issue.

"Regular" guitar gauges are still used for 7 string, 8 string, baritone, etc.. all with extended scale lengths and no ill effects.

 

[Deleted member 271037]

They absolutely can withstand the tension on a 30" scale (even the most fragile, the .009" plain can be tuned to high G4 on a 12-string guitar, which is the near exact equivalent of tuning one to E4 on a 30") and, if the 30"-scale instrument in question has a smaller, not in-line headstock, like mine, normal guitar strings from at least some manufacturers (D'Addario, GHS) are plenty long.
Again, this is indeed off topic given the OP, but it won't hurt to point out, to the benefit of the odd passer-by.

I was thinking more that they would be insanely floppy and virtually unplayable with B1-C4...?

For what it's worth I recently measured a D'Addario guitar set against a 30" Fender-style instrument and they were definitely not long enough. But yeah, that was an in-line headstock (which is also that case with the instrument the OP is referring to).

 

[Deleted member 271037]

Most guitar strings have a 39"-42" winding length, so the scale won't be an issue.

"Regular" guitar gauges are still used for 7 string, 8 string, baritone, etc.. all with extended scale lengths and no ill effects.

It certainly wasn't long enough when I tried regular guitar strings on a 30" instrument with a Fender style headstock. The problem was the 1st string, the rest were long enough. But that was a set of either .009 or .010 D'Addario XL, not GHS.

I guess it will depend on the design of the instrument too. Are you sure the 1st string of a regular guitar set will be long enough for the instrument the OP is referring to? It has an in-line headstock as well as a stop bar tailpiece that adds to the required length. I can't see how the 1st string from a regular guitar string set could work here but I guess other manufacturers must supply longer strings than the D'Addario XLs I tried.

 

[Jon Moody]

I guess it will depend on the design of the instrument too. Are you sure the 1st string of a regular guitar set will be long enough for the instrument the OP is referring to? It has an in-line headstock as well as a stop bar tailpiece that adds to the required length. I can't see how the 1st string from a regular guitar string set could work here but I guess other manufacturers must supply longer strings than the D'Addario XLs I tried.

The OP is going to have to measure to make sure, and then compare with what's available. It may be that his idea is just impossible, given the instrument used. Or, he'll have to hunt around and find something that works.

If the length is around 40" to the first post, there are a couple string options out there for plain guitar strings that will work.