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Double Bass string height

M

Mike D.

Dec 8, 2007
77
1
Montreal, QC, Canada
www.myspace.com
#1
Hey all,
I know I am mainly a jazz bassist and this is the forum for Orchestral technique, but I would like to get the opinions of bassists in the classical sector.
Most people say there's no shame in playing with low action, but there are lots of jazz guys that prefer high action for tone and volume.
Most classical oriented bassists I've spoken to tend to say the ideal is to have the strings the lowest without a buzz or rattle against the fingerboard. This would be to necissitate left-hand articulation as well as thumb position solo passages.
The Jazzers tend to go for a string action that favors tone while the Classical bassists I've spoken to tend to go for a string action that favors technique.
I have my action set on the low-side although I don't get buzzes under normal circumstances. I am fairly comfortable with where it's at but I am constantly intimidated by bassists that have action much higher than my own. I keep on thinking that low-action is more of a beginner thing and I should probably put my strings higher despite my comfort.
Also, what is the standard way of measuring string height with basses varying in string length as well as fingerboard length.
My bass is about 41 inches and maybe a bit string length I think. And the fingerboard stops at around the second B flattish B natural in thumb position on the G string (one B ABOVE the REAL middle C).
am I missing a lot in terms of volume and tone?
if anyone is interested in hearing a sample of me playing my bass to comment if it sounds like the strings are too low: Link Removed
I know the link has jazz samples and that's not your "bag" but your input would be greatly appreciated.
I do however have a Simandl etude recorded arco of course that I can send to anyone that requests hearing my bass for height verification under arco circumstances. Just send me a personal message with your email adress and I'd be happy to send you the clip for your feedback on the string height (as well as the interpretation of the etude).
All help is greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.
Mike De Masi
 
#2
Don't worry what you see other people do, just worry about what is comfortable for you and worry about setting up your instrument so that you can get the tone, volume and clarity you want. If you're not getting it, take your bass to your local luthier and tell them what you're not getting out of your setup and they can suggest adjustments.
 
#4
I used to play with really low action, but have gradually been increasing it. For now, play at what is most comfortable, and then after a while you can start increasing it. I prefer higher action as it lets you get a bigger sound, but don't feel like you're obligated as bass player to play with the most difficult setup possible.
 
#5
I have discovered that my strings and bass have an optimum height for volume and articulation which varies by string maker. My current strings are Obligatos, and the orchestral and jazz optimum are very close, and much lower than I anticipated. Also, I would not be intimidated by how other players set up. I think our modern level of technique is based on taking advantage of technological advances. If I can get a big sound without shredding my fingertips, then all the better!
 
#10
I'm pretty sure Edgar could make his bass explode in any register he wanted to. Meaning I have also heard him play without amplification and he can be extremely loud.

That aside I consider my setup right now great for orchestral playing. Now the action is also very good for jazz playing and I get a big sound with little effort. Experimenting and finding the right setup is a job for you and your luthier.
 
#11
Most classical oriented bassists I've spoken to tend to say the ideal is to have the strings the lowest without a buzz or rattle against the fingerboard. This would be to necissitate left-hand articulation as well as thumb position solo passages.
The Jazzers tend to go for a string action that favors tone while the Classical bassists I've spoken to tend to go for a string action that favors technique.
Click to expand...

My comment to this is that having the strings low enough not to buzz does not necessarily mean they are "low." Also comparing a jazz bassist's string hight with a soloist like edgar meyer will yield a wildly different result that comparing that same jazz bassist's action with someone who's really bearing down on the instrument in some heavy orchestra literature. I think there are as many varying approaches to string height in the classical realm as amongst jazz players.

Also I recall reading an interesting interview in the book "Notes and Tones" with Ron Carter that addresses this question in an interesting way. He would urge you to consider how having higher action (greater tension on the instrument) arrests the vibration of the instrument- working against your goal of playing louder.
 
#12
FYI, the latest actual measurements for orchestral bass action are around 4 to 5 mm (that's millimeters) on the G string at the end of the fingerboard. You measure from the surface of the fingerboard to the underside of the string (the actual distance of "air" between the two objects). 4 is getting fairly low, but people are doing it, because the string technology is getting more able to achieve this kind of thing, the luthiers are willing to do it, and the playing style is more about pulling (bowing) the strings sideways than pushing them down into the fingerboard.

You can get plenty of sound in any case. :bassist:

Benefits of lower string action: easier on the hands, easier to be in tune (less distance for your fingers to travel and less change in string tension as you push the string down), awkward fingerings suddenly become accessible (imagine playing the end of bach's first cello suite at cello pitch super easily.... like it was meant to sound!)

Drawbacks of lower string action: you can't wank on your bass as indiscriminately as you used to. :crying: There is some argument for allowing the string to vibrate as freely as possible... low action limits how circular the string's vibrations can get--you're playing in an ellipse instead (most of us do this anyway).

If anyone can think of any more benefits/drawbacks, I'd love to hear them.

-Trevor
 
#13
It doesn't work well on all basses, but I like the idea of a higher tension string and lower action. Of course, the biggest limiting factor is the surface of your fingerboard...

I think, if people will admit it or not, that often higher than desirable action is a cop-out for a poorly dressed fingerboard; it seems to me like for every 20 competent luthiers out there, maybe one can really pull off a super slick, professional setup job. And that's among bass luthiers, not all the violin shops who look at bass work as carpentry.

Its easier to pull off a macho attitude about your 1" action than admit your fingerboard is a piece of crap... :p
 
#14
toman said:
It doesn't work well on all basses, but I like the idea of a higher tension string and lower action. Of course, the biggest limiting factor is the surface of your fingerboard...

I think, if people will admit it or not, that often higher than desirable action is a cop-out for a poorly dressed fingerboard; it seems to me like for every 20 competent luthiers out there, maybe one can really pull off a super slick, professional setup job. And that's among bass luthiers, not all the violin shops who look at bass work as carpentry.

Its easier to pull off a macho attitude about your 1" action than admit your fingerboard is a piece of crap... :p
Click to expand...

There probably is some truth in that. The fingerboard on my main bass isn't wonderful so I do have to use higher action. My other bass was recently planed, and the strings can go really low before buzzing. That being said, I prefer the sound of my main bass with higher action.
 
#15
Remember, the lower tension strings require higher action and higher tension strings need lower action.
Regardless of what strings are on the bass, the biggest problem I find in many basses is too much scoop in the fingerboard. Too many luthiers, and most of the setup work done on the newer basses out there, have poor setup work. I've had student basses where the action was 4mm at the end of the fingerboard and the height of the string in second position was over 7mm. That will make any professionals hands hurt.
My suggestion would be to get a professional setup so that you could have your action as low as 4 mm, with a reduced scoop and no buzzes. From there you can raise the bridge to a height that gives you the sound and fell you like. Also check the nut to make sure the height is not too high. It should be just high enough to fit a business card under the strings below the nut.
FYI In my youth, I went through a phase were I thought it was macho to have the strings extremely high. This only works if you have a very low tension gut string. If an on old school sound is what your after, this is great. But if you want to develop more technique, you'll have to compromise to make the instrument easier to play.
 
#18
I like the part about pulling the strings sideways. If you find a way to play with them vibrating up and down into the fingerboard, then it might make sense to have higher action. Other than that, if you need more or less tension, you could adjust the bass, put the string where you want it, then put the fingerboard closely under the string. They are both movable. You can also shop for a louder bass.
 
#19
I think that string height is not really the main problem as far as tone is concerned. It's mostly about how much tension any given bass requires. For example, my main bass sounds horrible with high tension strings, they feel super stiff and crush the bass, so the only way to make them work is by having super low action to compensate. On my Czech ease though, the same set of strings gets a really nice tone, with a comfortable action, and they feel very flexible.

That's one of the benefits of having a removable neck modification done (it'll be this august for me), it allows the angle of the neck to be changed with ease, so that you can get the right amount of tension, but with the perfect string height.
 

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