Double Bass String tension and fatigue

[Michael Milner]

I would appreciate some opinions from my fellow double bassists here on Talk Bass. Lately I have been experiencing some left hand fatigue after 20 or 30 minutes of playing. It seems there is more string tension than usual on my bass. We have had a humid summer and I suspect that may be the culprit (I have a carved instrument). I don't have bridge adjusters, although I am considering getting them installed. The bass is currently strung with Thomastik Spirocores (regular gauge).

Should I be looking at lowering the action, or maybe trying some other type of strings with a lower tension? I am an older musician, and I don't want to damage my left hand.

Thanks.

 

[Jake deVilliers]

Hi Michael, I believe that every bass/player can benefit from having a lightweight set of aluminium adjusters installed.

They allow you to dial in YOUR sound and feel no matter the current climatic conditions.

 

[robobass]

+1. Also check the fingerboard scoop. Too much will make the bass unnecessarily hard to play no matter the bridge height. And finally, Spiro Mittels are a fairly tight string.

 

[Chris Fitzgerald]

Agree with the above. Just as a reference, what is the string height of your strings in mm from the bottom of each string to the fingerboard at the very end of the fingerboard?

 

[Eric Hochberg]

All good advice above. to sum up,

get adjusters and lower the strings,
check fingerboard for amount of scoop and have it dressed to lessen the scoop if possible,
check nut height and lower if it's above a business card,
try out spiro weich strings or Velvet for less tension.
With the right fingerboard dressing you should be able to get your strings down to 4-7mm.

These are all things I've done to help tired and stressed hands. The tone and acoustic volume of your bass may change a bit, but hopefully you'll be able to play over the long term with much more ease.

 

[LouisF]

I hate to ask, Michael, but... How old are you? I'm 65 and I find that even with all of the above (and one bass strung with solo strings to concert pitch) a half hour now feels a lot worse than it did 20 years ago. Stretching, heat, posture etc etc all help, but... ("It's Chinatown, Jake" -- or some snappy one-liner about inevitability)
Louis

 

[Michael Milner]

Thanks for the great advice. I will be considering all options! Anything else you can think of, please feel free to comment.

 

[LouisF]

Yeah... don't get old!

 

[KUNGfuSHERIFF]

Michael, I recently put a set of Velvet Blues on one of my basses. They have a bright, Spiro-ish modern jazz sort of a sound but are much easier on the hands. Each string, tuned to pitch, is under only 25kG of tension or thereabouts. That particular bass is set up with the string heights pretty low on both ends, and it plays effortlessly.

 

[bassmanbrent]

Michael, I recently put a set of Velvet Blues on one of my basses. They have a bright, Spiro-ish modern jazz sort of a sound but are much easier on the hands. Each string, tuned to pitch, is under only 25kG of tension or thereabouts.

+1 for what KFS said. I used Blues for a while and liked them quite a bit. The only negative for me was that they seemed to chew up the fingerboard a bit when new. And they aren't the best arco strings, but you can bow them IMHO.

 

[Michael Milner]

Here is an update. I had the bass looked at last week. I am getting a set of adjusters installed. It doesn't look like I need a neck reset or anything more serious. I am also getting a Schatten RB 1 pu installed for good measure.

 

[Jake deVilliers]

Yeah... don't get old!

Getting old is still better than the alternative!

 

[LouisF]

Getting old is still better than the alternative!

 

[Richard Simon]

Here's to all us 65+-ers.
Do not go gentle unto that good night, said Alfred Tennyson - and so many people agreed, they thought of him as Lord!

Regarding string tension, and playing "effortlessly":
- as a jazz player primarily, I like digging in and coaxing sound out of the bass before the sound is amplified

I recently acquired a nifty bass - older, even, than me - from the early 1900s, a factory German roundback with a gorgeous tone.
It had had its top shattered - don't ask how - but was painstakingly reconstructed with glue and cleats aplenty.

The luthier warned that the bass might 'implode' under the tension of the Medlums.

He set it up with a small-ish bridge and Thomastik Weichs.

The luthier likes low action and Weich gauge strings; I prefer medium action and Orchestra or Medium strings.

Was he simply embedding his personal predilections inside the warning about too much tension, or should I be afraid, very afraid?

It's said that a set of Weichs exerts 11% less tension than Mediums.

But I tried Weichs on my Morelli at a jazz festival two years ago, and the entire weekend was a nightmare: I couldn't find good pitches or tone, and the strings wouldn't stay in tune. I deplored my amplified sound, which I likened to the side-effect of a popular drug: Weich-o-din.

At my age, there is enough to worry about without wondering when the bass top might collapse.

Another luthier suggested reducing the angle of the strings as a means of lessening the tension. This can be accomplished by means of a tailgate lifter or saddle. But won't a looser string feel mean that I'll lose some of the strings' resistance and volume?

Anyone with expertise or experience in the realm of bass-top-plate tension and strings is most welcome to weigh in here - gently.

Many thanks,
-ricardo

 

[Hector Wolff]

I can't comment on the danger to the top under the pressure of the strings.

Raising the saddle to lessen the angle of the strings over the bridge will reduce the downward pressure into the top (it is not really tension). Once you tune up to pitch, the tension of the strings themselves will be unaffected, an so the resistance and volume should be the same.

 

[arnoldschnitzer]

I can't comment on the danger to the top under the pressure of the strings.

Raising the saddle to lessen the angle of the strings over the bridge will reduce the downward pressure into the top (it is not really tension). Once you tune up to pitch, the tension of the strings themselves will be unaffected, an so the resistance and volume should be the same.

In reality, changing the breakover angle has a noticeable affect on volume and tone, and a bit of an affect on feel. Basses with lightly-wooded tops often sound better with a less acute angle; those with heavily-wooded tops will often benefit from a higher bridge and lower saddle to increase pressure on the top table. I often build with an adjustable saddle, which allows tweaking of the breakover angle. A difference of one degree is noticeable to a sensitive player.