Double Bass String Tension Science

[Silversorcerer]

There are at least a couple strings here at TB discussing the raised saddle concept on a bass, and it's use to lower string tension.

And they are total malarkey ....
Don't you mean threads? .... And if you want to know why it's malarkey, you should carefully re-read this thread.

I'd splane, boot, write know, Ime souPhleinnnggf throm two mooch thread atenshun. Most have cuufeeee and shugger. Bie new. (blinks, shrugs, and heads back into dark cave)

 

[Chris Fitzgerald]

And they are total malarkey ....

In your humble opinion, of course.

 

[Silversorcerer]

Sluuuurrrrrrp, AAAhhhh! (emerging from cave bright-eyed and bushy-tailed)

To point to the original topic, there is a way to improve the the E string without changing the neck angle and/or TP angle. I replaced my tailpiece with a Pecanic compensated TP. This increases the afterlength of the E string and to a lesser extent the A and thus makes for a little stiffer feel and a fuller sound.

This, combined with a Flatchromesteel E, and I have a really strong E on the Shen now.

This has nothing to do with the original topic. The new tailpiece did not alter the tension. It altered something else;- the after length of the string and thus the resonant frequency of that string length at the same tension. As Matthew pointed out at the begining of this thread, the tension has to be the same if you are tuning the same string length (between the nut and bridge) and mass to a given pitch. If anything altered the tension and feel, it was the Flatchrome steel E, which probably (since you say it is stiffer), increased the mass of the string length (from nut to bridge) and therefore required more tension to yield the proper pitch.

I give the Pecanic tailpiece credit for what it does, and it is no mystery to me that this is important. But it does not alter Mersenne's equation. Let it be no mystery to you, either. The tunable Pecanic tailpiece allows the adjustment of the afterlength in such a way that constructive resonant properties can be assigned to the string afterlength. Combined with adjusting the length of the tail gut (wire, cable, etc.) and the mass of the tailpiece, these resonant properties can be optimized. The tailpiece, afterlength and tailgut act as sympathetic resonators. The sympathetic resonance, when constructive can strengthen the responsiveness of the strings.

I rrrreeaaaalllly neeed a vacation!!!!

 

[Chasarms]

And they are total malarkey ....
Don't you mean threads? ...

I didn't mean anything. I wrote "strings." I've heard the two interchanged quite often in this context. Perhaps you should wait until next time to wave your wand of condescension.

.... And if you want to know why it's malarkey, you should carefully re-read this thread.

I understand the concept completely and admittedly was ambiguous to the point of being inaccurate.

The idea is that the extended saddle changes the effects of string tension on bridge downforce. If a bass top moves better with less force, but the player likes the feel of higher tension strings, it may work out for them.

 

[Silversorcerer]

In your humble opinion, of course.

In my most humble opinion!
ehr, Sir.

 

[Silversorcerer]

All humbling mumbling aside:

I understand the concept completely and admittedly was ambiguous to the point of being inaccurate.

We must aspire to be as accurate as possible when we discuss these concepts in the specifics, otherwise there is little to be gained or learned from the discussion. If we interchange terminology casually, the words lose meaning. The adjustable tailpiece deserves a separate thread or all of this will be massively confusing to those who can't read the too lengthy, too highly tensioned strings;- I mean threads, and excise the meaningful information from all the all too confusing gunk. Why surround the pearls with the oysters Mersenne and others have extracted them from already? Agreed?

 

[mattvaughnjr]

The science involved here is well and good and very interesting; however, I have played a bass with an elevated saddle, and, noting the difference in playablility, want to modify my own saddle. Does anyone have a link to specs or good pictures of one? Thanks for the good read!

 

[Eric Hochberg]

The science involved here is well and good and very interesting; however, I have played a bass with an elevated saddle, and, noting the difference in playablility, want to modify my own saddle. Does anyone have a link to specs or good pictures of one? Thanks for the good read!

Heres mine:

http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=384498&highlight=raised+saddle

 

[TroyK]

Yesterday I felt like a geek. Today, you guys are making me feel like one of the cool kids. Don't even think about trying to sit at my table in the cafeteria.