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Studio Recording Rig

Best Option for Studio Recording

  • Mic AD200B

    Votes: 3 4.5%

  • Mesa TT800 Direct

    Votes: 13 19.7%

  • Red DI Direct

    Votes: 19 28.8%

  • LR Baggs Acoustic Direct

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Other Preamp/DI/OD - which one?

    Votes: 11 16.7%

  • Something else entirely

    Votes: 20 30.3%
  • Total voters
    66
kbakerde

kbakerde

Supporting Member
Jan 24, 2012
3,013
4,695
#1
Long post, please bear with me!

I am going into the studio to record with my band in May. I have not been totally happy with the bass tone I have gotten in this band so far and how it has sit in the mix. I am not 100% the culprit, though I have mostly been using a mic'd tube bass amp for my recordings. For most of them I have used an Orange AD200B through an Orange OBC115. This is killer live, and when recording solo sounded good, just not sitting in the mix. Now historically I have used a lot of effects, dirt pedals ETC when playing. Now days, I am mostly clean-ish. I use the Orange so there is a touch of hair when digging in but otherwise is relatively clean. I use some pedals sparingly in certain spots, mostly I use some Fuzz.

Now I have another project. Old band, friends with the guys, and we want to have fun be creative and have it be low pressure. At the most recent practice we went to another friend of ours who sat in, and had a recording setup. My bass went through an LG Baggs Para DI that is meant for an acoustic guitar, and honestly it sounded great. Very clean though, and I'd want just a touch more dirt if possible.

Wrapped up in all of this, after my last gig I had a bug to get lighter. I had to schlep my cab and head, and ended up having to schlep the freaking guitarist big 4x12 and head as well. It got me thinking about a better class D head. Let's leave the gear and weight discussion, I only bring it up to inform some of my decisions.

GET TO THE POINT ALREADY!!!!!

Ok, you're right I'm rambling. Apologies. I need some help. I want to choose the best option for the studio. I need to leave my love of gear, preconceived notions and ego at the door. I want to have the best bass sound for the mix as possible. Here are the options I have looked at, and I am very interested in informed opinions.

Micing the AD200: One option is that I am in my own head, my sound is actually pretty good and it ain't broke so don't mess with it. Fair

Direct using the studio Red DI: Studio does have a pretty nice DI box, the Red DI. However being in the studio the tone of the direct signal hasn't seemed to be anything special. It's captured more for reference.

Use Direct out on the TT800: This was the original reason to purchase the TT800 was simply for studio use. Get some tone shaping and some of that amp magic, but just run straight in.

Purchase another Tone Shaping DI for the Studio: There are a lot of good Preamp/DI's with some OD/Disortion on the Market: Sansamp, Darkglass Vintage Ultra, Subway Preamp, or sticking with Orange with the Bass Butler

LR Baggs Acoustic DI: This is what I used at my friends. I was surprised how much I liked it. The bass sounded great and was really present in the mix. But might have been a touch clean?

Kudos if you made it through all that. Thanks for your help everyone.
 
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#4
AGCurry said:
Why not simply be prepared to experiment a little and choose the "winner?"
Click to expand...
If time and budget allow for it, this is the best answer.

My usual starting point on projects with a budget is to setup a safety DI, which is specifically done with a DI that doesn't add any color or non-linearity to the signal path, and then a mic'd version of what the player likes out of their amp. Tweak to taste from there in terms of amp settings, amp placement within the room, microphone selection(s), microphone placement(s), with the DI, without the DI, reamped to different amps, etc.
 
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#6
In your situation I would record both the REDDI and the miked up Orange amp.

Since the amp alone sounds good in solo (... not that you need it to sound good in solo...) I would lean toward it being a mix issue. Having the separate DI track will give you a backup and an option, but I would focus more on making what you already have and like work.

Is it safe to assume this is a professional studio with a person doing the mix that is experienced in your style of music ? If so they should be doing standard things to shape the low end and lower midrange, compress the track, and maybe generate some extra harmonics/slight distortion or enhance existing harmonics with an EQ to help the bass be heard without being relatively too loud overall.

It's easy to get talked into trying something different in the studio, and to believe it sounds good while you are in that situation being influenced by others and hearing it in an unfamiliar monitoring context. But that impression may not last. The person telling you their preference sounds better may not appreciate your style, and may have a conflict of interest in that they want to do what they are used to or know to be easiest for them.

The counter argument to what I just said is that the studio is a rare situation where players can be suddenly confronted with objective feedback about their sound or their parts, and realize they need to make changes to appeal to their own tastes, which have previously been suppressed and beaten by their subjectivity.

If that turns out to be what is going on, you don't want to miss that chance to respond to that feedback, even though it may not be fun to suddenly realize you have a lot of work to do under pressure while the clock is running. If that happens, maybe postponing is the way to do.
 
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#7
Tech 21 bass
4F39EB26-293B-426A-BECF-7D96509F6C6D.jpeg
Fly Rig.
Duke
 
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#10
kbakerde said:
Long post, please bear with me!

I am going into the studio to record with my band in May. I have not been totally happy with the bass tone I have gotten in this band so far and how it has sit in the mix. I am not 100% the culprit, though I have mostly been using a mic'd tube bass amp for my recordings. For most of them I have used an Orange AD200B through an Orange OBC115. This is killer live, and when recording solo sounded good, just not sitting in the mix. Now historically I have used a lot of effects, dirt pedals ETC when playing. Now days, I am mostly clean-ish. I use the Orange so there is a touch of hair when digging in but otherwise is relatively clean. I use some pedals sparingly in certain spots, mostly I use some Fuzz.

Now I have another project. Old band, friends with the guys, and we want to have fun be creative and have it be low pressure. At the most recent practice we went to another friend of ours who sat in, and had a recording setup. My bass went through an LG Baggs Para DI that is meant for an acoustic guitar, and honestly it sounded great. Very clean though, and I'd want just a touch more dirt if possible.

Wrapped up in all of this, after my last gig I had a bug to get lighter. I had to schlep my cab and head, and ended up having to schlep the freaking guitarist big 4x12 and head as well. It got me thinking about a better class D head. Let's leave the gear and weight discussion, I only bring it up to inform some of my decisions.

GET TO THE POINT ALREADY!!!!!

Ok, you're right I'm rambling. Apologies. I need some help. I want to choose the best option for the studio. I need to leave my love of gear, preconceived notions and ego at the door. I want to have the best bass sound for the mix as possible. Here are the options I have looked at, and I am very interested in informed opinions.

Micing the AD200: One option is that I am in my own head, my sound is actually pretty good and it ain't broke so don't mess with it. Fair

Direct using the studio Red DI: Studio does have a pretty nice DI box, the Red DI. However being in the studio the tone of the direct signal hasn't seemed to be anything special. It's captured more for reference.

Use Direct out on the TT800: This was the original reason to purchase the TT800 was simply for studio use. Get some tone shaping and some of that amp magic, but just run straight in.

Purchase another Tone Shaping DI for the Studio: There are a lot of good Preamp/DI's with some OD/Disortion on the Market: Sansamp, Darkglass Vintage Ultra, Subway Preamp, or sticking with Orange with the Bass Butler

LR Baggs Acoustic DI: This is what I used at my friends. I was surprised how much I liked it. The bass sounded great and was really present in the mix. But might have been a touch clean?

Kudos if you made it through all that. Thanks for your help everyone.
Click to expand...


I'd recommend recording your direct tone and your amp tone simultaneously and then blend in the mix. That's what I've done for years and been very satisfied with the results.
 
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#11
If not recording analog (I presume it won't be?), multiple tracks with all the experimentation you can get away with. REDDI for one track, anything else you like on all the others (given that there's time, budget, inputs, and willingness of everyone to do that). Then mix to taste. Nothing to lose by having options all recorded - use what you like, ditch the rest, and have a great clean track with the REDDI to do any in-the-box alterations with plugins.

Personally, I love the REDDI for a great DI track and can make unlimited duplicate tracks from that to mess around with any way that strikes me.
 
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#14
A limiting factor will be the studio's I/O count. In my studio I can handle 24 simultaneous channels of input with the preamps I have on-hand. Technically I could scale it up to 64 with sufficient digital I/O to expand via optical or AVB, but have never needed that much firepower. With 24 channels I've never had a problem running a live band. If the studio is running into a limited I/O and you're trying to track together as a band as opposed to doing a bunch of individual overdubs you might not get the luxury of multiple tracks. If that's the case my advice is always to just use a clean, uncolored DI with no saturation while tracking and then reamp through all of your other stuff, if desired, after the band is done tracking to save on I/O for things that can't be easily reamped such as live drums.
 
#16
kbakerde said:
Long post, please bear with me!

I am going into the studio to record with my band in May. I have not been totally happy with the bass tone I have gotten in this band so far and how it has sit in the mix. I am not 100% the culprit, though I have mostly been using a mic'd tube bass amp for my recordings. For most of them I have used an Orange AD200B through an Orange OBC115. This is killer live, and when recording solo sounded good, just not sitting in the mix. Now historically I have used a lot of effects, dirt pedals ETC when playing. Now days, I am mostly clean-ish. I use the Orange so there is a touch of hair when digging in but otherwise is relatively clean. I use some pedals sparingly in certain spots, mostly I use some Fuzz.

Now I have another project. Old band, friends with the guys, and we want to have fun be creative and have it be low pressure. At the most recent practice we went to another friend of ours who sat in, and had a recording setup. My bass went through an LG Baggs Para DI that is meant for an acoustic guitar, and honestly it sounded great. Very clean though, and I'd want just a touch more dirt if possible.

Wrapped up in all of this, after my last gig I had a bug to get lighter. I had to schlep my cab and head, and ended up having to schlep the freaking guitarist big 4x12 and head as well. It got me thinking about a better class D head. Let's leave the gear and weight discussion, I only bring it up to inform some of my decisions.

GET TO THE POINT ALREADY!!!!!

Ok, you're right I'm rambling. Apologies. I need some help. I want to choose the best option for the studio. I need to leave my love of gear, preconceived notions and ego at the door. I want to have the best bass sound for the mix as possible. Here are the options I have looked at, and I am very interested in informed opinions.

Micing the AD200: One option is that I am in my own head, my sound is actually pretty good and it ain't broke so don't mess with it. Fair

Direct using the studio Red DI: Studio does have a pretty nice DI box, the Red DI. However being in the studio the tone of the direct signal hasn't seemed to be anything special. It's captured more for reference.

Use Direct out on the TT800: This was the original reason to purchase the TT800 was simply for studio use. Get some tone shaping and some of that amp magic, but just run straight in.

Purchase another Tone Shaping DI for the Studio: There are a lot of good Preamp/DI's with some OD/Disortion on the Market: Sansamp, Darkglass Vintage Ultra, Subway Preamp, or sticking with Orange with the Bass Butler

LR Baggs Acoustic DI: This is what I used at my friends. I was surprised how much I liked it. The bass sounded great and was really present in the mix. But might have been a touch clean?

Kudos if you made it through all that. Thanks for your help everyone.
Click to expand...

I’m not sure who is is mixing your recordings but for me, the best most natural sound on a bass is going directly into the board wide open (Fender PB volume and tone full on) then add what ever effects you want to the track that has been recorded. A good system (Cubasis-ProTools) should allow you to import in any sort of effect, EQ, amp, and or cab models you can get your hands on (not that we use much other than a bit of compression on the final mix down). Anyway, that is how we roll.
 
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#17
The best sound I have ever gotten (and we tried a ton of crap) was my old P-J Bass into a direct box for impedance matching, and then straight into the tape machine input, and run things just a touch into the red. Really good magnetic saturation, huge sound, occasionally annoyed soundman, oh well, the tone will tell, made a few believers along the way. Seems to work okay with digital recorders as well, but most of my experience has been with tape. (Yeah, I'm a Geezer.)
 
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#18
Ductapeman said:
straight into the tape machine input, and run things just a touch into the red
Click to expand...
Ductapeman said:
Seems to work okay with digital recorders as well, but most of my experience has been with tape.
Click to expand...
Modern converters operating at 24-bit should never be run into the red, or anywhere even close to it except in the most esoteric of cases. A 24-bit file is theoretically 144db above the noise floor, and generally clipping the front end of an AD stage sounds bad. Peaks hitting -6dbfs is the absolute hottest anyone should ever bother tracking in a digital environment.
 
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#19
Stewie said:
The easy way is to show up with your bass and a patch cord. Let the guy behind the desk figure it out. You can bring your amp and get a track of that, but you’ll have to carry it home after
Click to expand...

I will expand on this by saying that every studio/producer/engineer I have worked with has had their own preferred way of recording bass and equipment available for doing so, whether or not they try to get everyone to use their stuff or they just have it on hand for situations where a bassist comes in with minimal or defective gear.

I do always bring my own rig with at least one DI option and at least one amp + cab option just in case, and frequently end up using at least part of my own setup, but I also just as often end up using all or part of whatever gear the producer/engineer wants to use because it is easier and they tend to know how to get a good sound out of it.
 
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