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Subwoofer Placement - Outdoor Show

DJWhitJr

DJWhitJr

Apr 25, 2020
719
775
Smithton, IL
#1
I'm looking for advice on the optimal placement/setup of 2 subwoofers for an outdoor show I have next weekend.

Some background this is an annual neighborhood party we put on in the middle of the street. We bring in a couple food trucks, porta-potties, etc. hire a local band in addition to mine and sell t-shirts to help cover the cost. Any remaining proceeds from the t-shirt sales are given to the town's athletic association (youth baseball). Half of the bandmembers live in the neighborhood so we don't take full pay for the show because we view it as our party. With that in mind, I'm not renting more subs for the show even though it would be ideal.

I'll be using 2 Yamaha DXS18XLF subs, which do surprisingly well. If memory serves, last year I coupled them center stage, both firing forward and it seemed to work fine. Obviously, there is only so much I can do with 2 subs and the sound is what it is. We aren't going for rock concert volume.

I'm thinking center stage is probably better than each side of the stage?

If I keep them center stage, wondering if there is a SPL benefit to turn one around and use the cardioid function in the subs menu or leave them both firing forward? From what I've read the cardioid setup is primarily used to keep the low-end off the stage. Is that correct?

Pictures attached from the party 2 years ago. Notice people weren't sitting close to the stage and nobody complained they couldn't hear us. Before anyone comments, this is the only time I wore shorts on a stage. LOL
 

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#5
Per conventional wisdom: centered & clustered. If problematic, clustered to either stage left or right. I've seen the bit with a 3rd enclosure backwards / reversed polarity with the subs under the stage. You can also cross-fire by angling at 90 degrees.

Riis
 
#6
Zooberwerx said:
Per conventional wisdom: centered & clustered. If problematic, clustered to either stage left or right. I've seen the bit with a 3rd enclosure backwards / reversed polarity with the subs under the stage. You can also cross-fire by angling at 90 degrees.

Riis
Click to expand...
The 3rd sub with reverse polarity trick is generally referred to as cardioid sub and is really nice at reducing the rumble and bass bleeding onto the stage.
QSC has a K series sub that has it built into a single self powered cab. I believe that box does 2 12” woofers facing forward and a 10” rear facing. Not cheap but very convenient.
 
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#8
Pretty sure cardioid mode will reduce headroom a bit. It will also degrade transient response a bit. That doesn't mean it's not the best compromise.

Choose the compromise you think best suits the situation.
1. Tight packing the subs in the center will deliver the highest SPL to the audience. It may also deliver excessive lows to the front line, which may be a problem for the vocalist. The low frequency energy can also bleed into mics and degrade what the audience hears.
2. Cardioid will reduce how much bass bleeds into the front line, which may be better for the vocalists. The cost is slightly reduced headroom and a softer transient response.

It should take a minute or so to change configurations if you study and practice. If you will have a sound check, you could experiment to choose the best option. Otherwise, ask if the vocalist remember the last gig and if they had any concerns about too much bass. If yes, start in cardioid with the option to switch if the subs are run out of headroom way to soon. If the vocalists did not have a problem with too much lows, start with the subs tight packed in normal mode.

It can be helpful to brief the band to explain how the experiment and choice can impact them and why you are doing it. However, don't get too far into the weeds with technical details, as they probably don't care.
 
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#14
ricardol said:
Turn one around and use the cardioid function.
It's very unpleasant for those on stage to have low-end sounds radiating across the stage.
Lower volume helps bring the audience closer to the stage.
Click to expand...

Interesting but, all too often, we're hampered by spatial constraints (...especially indoors) and the ability to assign time delays among the mains and both subs-in-play. I can see us doing the stacked config but with placement either stage left or right. I use an older DriveRack as the crossover BUT believe I can re-assign a dedicated channel with the desired delay and reverse the polarity amp > enclosure.

Riis
 
#17
Lot of good talking points. I’d just like to put out there a philosophy I practice in live sound.

Knowing the science of sound reinforcement is beneficial but don’t let it dictate everything you do in real applications.
In the end what is most important is “does it sound good”, be willing to experiment and break the “rules” sometimes.

Years ago when everything was still analog and all your EQs and channel strips were on display I would have more experienced engineers/ musicians scoff at my choices of EQ settings, high passes, FX, gear, before listening to the monitors/foh. Then they would perform or listen to a set and in bewilderment at the end of the set come up to me and say something like “wow, that sounded great” or “this is the best I’ve heard this stage sound, I could hear everything”.

With that said it’s good to know the how it works and why but don’t be afraid to try something new or different.
 
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#20
Nice subs! I have the 15" version and they are kick butt!

In your scenario, tender kiddy ears, adults who want to chill, who want to dance and do their version of rockin' out, I would go one sub and one side per side.

You won't need the absolute most SPL. You don't really want to flood the stage with low end. Yes there is a power alley. You can defeat that by stacking the subs on one side and it can sound great - I do that in one venue but have been told it looks weird... light travels faster than sound...

Neighborhood block party... it really is more about the people and the party. You and me ? We're just there to facilitate. I do KISS for those events and generally have a great time doing it.
 
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