Suggested gear setup for Dub sound?

[LKdubby]

Forgive me if I'm asking advice in the wrong area of the forum, I'm new here and amateur in music as well.. If there is a better place to discuss this then let me know and I'll move my post over.

I currently own no gear at all but have minor past experience with two different bass guitars, the brands of which I cannot remember.. They weren't any major name that I know of anyways and it's been years since I owned them..

I listen to a lot of reggae and dub and some of my favorites are Sly & Robbie, Lee Scratch Perry, Prince Far I, etc.. I have many times wanted to play the bass lines that I hear in my favorite songs, not to mention experiment with making my own grooves..

I remember being frustrated with the guitars that I owned before and wondering if I were doing something wrong, or if I just had the wrong equipment for my needs.. The reason I say that is because I couldn't get either of those guitars to hit any of the deep soothing bass tones that I hear in my favorite reggae and dub songs.. I could play some bass lines with them, and have been told I have a good ear and timing, yet when I was unable to hit those really deep low notes that I hear in my head I would become extremely frustrated and give up... I tried tuning the strings down thinking that would help, but ended up getting rattly distorted noisy sound instead... I'm probably full of n00b lack of understanding, knowledge and concept, but I'm drastically itching to change that!

However there is a difference between now and when I owned the previous bass guitars years ago..
The first guitar I owned was basically an impulse buy out of the blue. I met some friends of my friends and they were about to go pawn this old wooden bass and offered it to me for $90. I decided what the heck, why not..
The second bass I had was given to me for free, again it kinda happened out of the blue..

The point is, back then I didn't have as much of a refined interest in what playing bass involved, and what kind of sound different basses will give. I took the first guitars that came my way because they were cheap, and even free! I had done no prior research on which kind of bass or equipment will help me achieve the sound that I want.

So before I buy any equipment this time I thought I just might do a little of that research! I thought I'd start here on these forums to see what the pro's have to say!

Thanks for any help and suggestions.

LK

PS, while I'm mainly interested right now in which bass guitar I'd need I'll obviously need a good amp eventually and possibly other equipment. So go all out in your suggested FULL setup for me! Thanks again!

 

[mambo4]

P-bass. Tone knob all the way down. Pluck with fingers near the neck.
15 inch cabinet
EQ the amp to boost around 250-350 hz (really fat bass sounds come from the boosting low mids)

your wording reads as if you are trying to play the bass lines on a guitar..no wonder you cant get the sound

 

[JimmyM]

It really doesn't matter what bass and amp you get. I have heard people dub out on everything from a Precison to a Steinberger and everything in between. Family Man, for example, is playing a Hohner B-Bass these days. What matters the most is using old strings and turning down the tone control.

 

[LKdubby]

P-bass. Tone knob all the way down. Pluck with fingers near the neck.
15 inch cabinet
EQ the amp to boost around 250-350 hz (really fat bass sounds come from the boosting low mids)

Thanks for your suggestions. Any feedback I can get will help me when it comes to buying the right bass on the next go round.

your wording reads as if you are trying to play the bass lines on a guitar..no wonder you cant get the sound

I can see the smily on the end of your last sentence, so I assume you said it lightly.. However I don't want my very first post on this forum to be ignored or shrugged off because people think I have no idea what I'm talking about or asking for based on your joke.. So I'll just respond to your last statement..

I guess I can see how you misread my post.. After all, I did say "frustrated with the guitars that I owned". However when we look at the rest of the message I am talking about "the two bass guitars that I owned in the past" and there was never any mention of owning a guitar.. I'm also talking about bass lines from reggae music that I want to play. And I'm also pointing out the difference between the bass guitars I used to own, and what I want to get now.. It seems a little redundant to me to have to say "bass guitar(s)" every time I'm mentioning one.. I could say "my bass" or "my basses" or "my axe" or "my guitar", but I figured since I joined a forum specifically aimed at discussing bass guitars and related equipment that when in one sentence I say "the bass guitars I used to own" and the next sentence I say "I was frustrated with those guitars I owned" that you guys will be able to put 2+2 together and know that I'm talking about my "bass guitars"..

I know I (humbly) used the words n00b, lack of understanding, knowledge and concept, however I did not mean to somehow imply that I'm a complete idiot with zero knowledge whatsoever.. I do actually know the difference between a guitar and a bass.. I've owned two basses (as mentioned in my original post) and have also played around with regular guitars that roommates have owned. If you put a six string bass next to a regular six string guitar in front of me I'm not going to say "duh, which one's which?"..
Quite amazingly I can tell the difference between regular electric guitars, acoustic guitars, electric or acoustic basses, 12 string guitars, 4-5-&6 string basses, fretless basses, basses with nylon strings, steel strings, brass strings, etc... To go really far out on a limb here I'll even say that while a piano gets its sound from hitting strings I know that it's not a guitar either, nor is it a bass!

So now that it should hopefully be crystal clear that I'm really talking about bass guitars and not regular ones I hope to hear some more good suggestions for equipment I should look at!

I will just re-iterate that the bass guitars I've experimented with in the past did not seem to be able to hit the low deep bass notes that I hear in dub music. I have no musical schooling and have never had an instructor in bass guitar, or any other instrument for that matter.. I don't know if I just had the wrong bass in my hands, or maybe I lacked an effects processor of some kind, or equalizer.. Who knows... That's why I am here, to find out what I did wrong and what equipment I need to supply myself with in order to get the deep bass tones I want..

Can anyone help with that?

Thanks again!

 

[Infernal Affair]

There have been a couple threads in the "Basses" forum about this. Most people will tell you, me included, that the bass is secondary to the technique. Of course if you have at least a solid bass like a Precision, Jazz, or any of the hundreds of good ones out there it helps. However most people will tell you pluck near the neck (I actually put my thumb on the neck for support on the low notes). Dead strings or flatwounds help, too. I play a couple reggae style songs here and there, but most of the stuff I'm saying is stuff I learned from other TB members.

Getting the lows may or may not depend on the amp. It may or may not depend on EQing. But all I can say is that if you're hearing notes lower than the low E, then they're either using a 5 string or downtuning. I don't think Aston Barrett or Robbie Shakespeare use 5 stringers, but Family Man has mentioned that he tunes to Eb. In the bass player article with Family Man, the only pedal he uses in his current setup is a Sansamp Bass Driver, which shouldn't affect the sound in that way, but it will add more grit.

 

[pbass2]

I play and produce, and remix, a lot of reggae and dub. One of the factors in the bass seeming so deep in this music(aside from the spiritual nature of really getting into the vibe) is that the EQ is really extreme--you're really whacking off the top end drastically. This is often beyond what the bass can do itself. I usually use a P with old Labella flats, with the tone rolled back--sometimes all the way--but then in the mix I roll off some more highs and boost some very specific lows. What this does is really put the bass in it's own EQ/sonic pocket in the mix that nothing else occupies. It's not so much that other bass styles DON'T have these lows, it's just all relative. The bass in dub/reggae isn't even bothering to occupy upper frequencies, and ends up just seeming deeper and lower because it is truly focused on the lows. It's all about perception and the relationship to the other instruments(which of course, is all about good mixing of any instrument, whether at the board, or how you EQ yourself in a live setting). Thats why the reggae/dub guys mostly play 4 stringers. It's not that a fiver or a sixer wouldn't be a good dub bass, but most players get a hold of one and want to occupy all the frequency spectrum from low to high, so they EQ their bass that way, and it inhibits where you can put it in the mix. The thing is, it's not just being LOW, it's being round and resonant. Robbie Shakespeare's low A on his E string sounds deeper and lower than most guys mushing around below E on a fiver's B string because they have too many other higher frequencies in play to be focused (for the genre).

Anyhow, as far as gear goes, while almost any bass can be made to work with the right EQ and mindset--get yerself a good P or J, put some flats on, never change 'em, roll back the tone knob, roll off the highs on yer amp, and start really thinking about the space you're in and pay attention to the spaces as much as the notes.

 

[manjar]

I agree with the playing closer to the neck, maybe even plucking with your thumb instead of your index/middle fingers. Along with this, you might need to bring up the action a bit if you've been keeping it low, as plucking this way seems to cause the string to vibrate in a wider range and therefore possibly buzz more. But maybe you'll like the way that sounds...

 

[Asa Samuel]

P-bass. Tone knob all the way down. Pluck with fingers near the neck.
15 inch cabinet
EQ the amp to boost around 250-350 hz (really fat bass sounds come from the boosting low mids)

your wording reads as if you are trying to play the bass lines on a guitar..no wonder you cant get the sound

That plus flatwound strings.

 

[Phaidrus]

I play and produce, and remix, a lot of reggae and dub. One of the factors in the bass seeming so deep in this music(aside from the spiritual nature of really getting into the vibe) is that the EQ is really extreme--you're really whacking off the top end drastically. This is often beyond what the bass can do itself. I usually use a P with old Labella flats, with the tone rolled back--sometimes all the way--but then in the mix I roll off some more highs and boost some very specific lows. What this does is really put the bass in it's own EQ/sonic pocket in the mix that nothing else occupies. It's not so much that other bass styles DON'T have these lows, it's just all relative. The bass in dub/reggae isn't even bothering to occupy upper frequencies, and ends up just seeming deeper and lower because it is truly focused on the lows. It's all about perception and the relationship to the other instruments(which of course, is all about good mixing of any instrument, whether at the board, or how you EQ yourself in a live setting). Thats why the reggae/dub guys mostly play 4 stringers. It's not that a fiver or a sixer wouldn't be a good dub bass, but most players get a hold of one and want to occupy all the frequency spectrum from low to high, so they EQ their bass that way, and it inhibits where you can put it in the mix. The thing is, it's not just being LOW, it's being round and resonant. Robbie Shakespeare's low A on his E string sounds deeper and lower than most guys mushing around below E on a fiver's B string because they have too many other higher frequencies in play to be focused (for the genre).

Anyhow, as far as gear goes, while almost any bass can be made to work with the right EQ and mindset--get yerself a good P or J, put some flats on, never change 'em, roll back the tone knob, roll off the highs on yer amp, and start really thinking about the space you're in and pay attention to the spaces as much as the notes.

Very interesting post as I'm into this myself (i.e. getting a good dub sound out of my gear) at the moment. Looking around I came across a YouTube video where Robbie Shakespeare is playing bass to a newer version of a Serge Gainsbourg song (Lola Rastaquouere) and Marianne Faithfull sings the lyrics. I thought I was dreaming! He's playing a PRS Grainger (?) bass with some thick strings on. Can you tell what they might be? There's some quick close up shots after 0:50 in the vid. The tone is round and deep and tight, not mushy.