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Suggestions for speaker replacement - '68 Bassman Cab

#21
JMV said:
I have a '68 Fender Bassman 215 cab and was wondering about a couple things. I really like the tone when driving it with a GK MB-150 (internal speaker off), however have a concern. I hear some "rattling", not sure if it's something in the room or loose hardware in cab or failing original speaker....??? The speakers are the original ones and assume they are Emminence or Fender Special Design, etc... If not already damaged, are they vulnerable to damage because they're old and fragile? Would replacements be recommended and if so, any suggestions to emulate original sound?
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Two things about speakers in 1968. They were either Jensen speakers or JBL D-140 speakers. The JBL speakers all had the aluminum dust cap which is an easy way to distinguish between them.

Jensen still makes speakers though JBL, to the best of my knowledge, hasn't made those speakers for a very long time. I would suggest if you can't find originals to replace you speakers you either have them re-coned or check with Eminence to find out what they would recommend for your cabinet. Since you have your cab apart right now and apparently a jar full of screws that held the back on, measure the insides so you can give Eminence an inside volume measurement to work with.
 
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#22
By the way, when transporting your cab you should always transport it with the speakers down. That's because the speakers are screwed in from the rear and they will rest against their speaker mount when you do. If you transport it speakers up, then the speakers will be hanging from screws with no other support. It's a fine point of course, but one I pay attention to with my gear so I thought I'd pass it on.
 
#23
BassFishingInAmerica said:
There are tons of bassman cabs from the 60s with JBLs. I've got one in my garage, which I know is original. I'm pretty sure they either came with Fender speakers or the JBLs. I know that the "F" designation on the JBL was specifically for Fender.
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I've seen and owned a Dual Showman with JBL's but have never seen (opened plenty) of bassmans with JBL's, they all had Fender Special design speakers in them, I'm not saying they didn't come with them but it wasn't common..
 
#24
Rip Van Dan said:
By the way, when transporting your cab you should always transport it with the speakers down. That's because the speakers are screwed in from the rear and they will rest against their speaker mount when you do. If you transport it speakers up, then the speakers will be hanging from screws with no other support. It's a fine point of course, but one I pay attention to with my gear so I thought I'd pass it on.
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I had a Dual Showman cab fall out of a pickup once going up a steep hill (young) and it landed on it's back, yup both speakers pulled loose from the baffle:laugh:
 
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#27
JMV said:
One other thing ... many years ago I gigged with this cab under a 60's/70's Ampeg V-4B head, so it definitely saw some "heavier" use and generally held its own and provided some really nice tone (IMO) with the P-bass and Ric that I played back in the day. Wish I would've known about HPF's back then :D
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Wouldn't that have be been great! I could've use a HPF for my Kustom 200 and Sunn 2000s, both with JBLs.:thumbsup:
 
#28
From the 1968 catalog (note driver size):

fender68p32.jpg

fender68p33.jpg


Dual Showman cabs (with D140F) were used with Bassman heads before 2x15s appeared later with the Bassman 50, 100 and 135.
 
#29
Actually, Fender replaced the 12's with 15's fairly early in the model run of '68 when the stock 12's (the same ones as in the Bandmaster) proved to be woefully inadequate for bass...most of the '68 and all of the '69 Bassman cabs had 15's. JBL's were available, but I never saw a Bassman with JBL's; I did see a fair number of Showman cabs with factory JBL's from this era. Obviously, that would have been a big upgrade in quality compared to the cheap, stamped-frame stock drivers that are in this box. A driver upgrade would definitely be an improvement. I don't have a specific recommendation, but I'm sure Eminence has something that would work better...almost anything would work better than the stock driver. This cab was not 'engineered' in even the slightest way...it's just a big old sealed box with a couple of semi-random drivers in it; there was no thought given to how the drivers work in the enclosure. (Remember it was 'designed' and produced prior to the dissemination of either Thiele's or Small's papers.)

This cab has the aluminum 'drip-edge' trim, so it's definitely a '68 or early '69...the EIA manufacturer's number and date code are probably still visible, stamped in ink on the back of the drivers. Although I actually somewhat prefer the black grill cloth, you might consider replacing it with the original 'blue-white-silver' stock grill cloth that was also first introduced in '68 if you're into the 'proper' period look.

Edit: The EIA code for Jensen is 220; for Utah it's 328 and for CTS, it's 137. I'd put my money on those being Utah speakers, but I could easily be wrong.
 
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#31
JMV said:
Found some rattle sources! First, about 95% was the metal grill from the MB-150 sitting on top of the cabinet. Those old Bassman cab's vibrate and resonate a lot . . . oddly the MB grill doesn't rattle from its internal speaker. Then, once back removed, I discovered nearly all fasteners inside cab were barely finger tight. Plus a a bare speaker mount stud without nut/lockwasher and a couple screws from the back are missing. Off to hardware store to close these gaps. In case anyone's wondering, yes there were fiberglass batts inside that I set to the side and will replace when putting everything back together... and the original grill cloth was dyed black (we used to modify things back when... kinda like the aforementioned Thrush glasspacks on our rides!!).

Didn't remove the speakers, but from parts of cone and surround that are visible it all appears to be in respectable condition for 50+ yrs old.

@biguglyman and @Redbrangus . . . you'd be proud, I didn't tighten these by the torque spec mentioned earlier :roflmao:

View attachment 3598628 View attachment 3598629 View attachment 3598630
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Very nice. CTS speaker 43rd week of 1968 if my eyes are working well enough.

Look at the speaker. I would remove the spoeakers and inspect the paper (sometimes cork) gasket that presses against the baffle. If it is hard and over compressed, they can be easily but very carefully changed. You don't want to poke a hole in the speaker cone with a tool. As has been mentioned, don't overtighten the nuts. Use an even star shaped pattern, tightening the opposite screw to ensure even pressure and more around. Like a torque pattern on a car wheel.

The cabinet itself can have a rattle in it. Tighten the baffle screws first being careful not to strip the heads or the wood. Test for rattles by applying pressure in different places while playing. You need two people. Start by sitting on the cab, listen, rotate it, repeat. Old joints can be firmed up by applying or injecting water diluted wood glue into the joints. There are speciality products available at some wood stores for doing this. It isn't as difficult as it sounds. Clean up the excess glue with a damp cloth.
 
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#33
BassmanPaul said:
My Fender Bassman 2x12, Blonde Blackface, was the worst amplifier I ever owned. It lasted a weekend before it was returned. They had already sold the amp I traded in for it, Epiphone Constellation, but I left the Fender anyway.
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Wow! Two amps that I too have hated. Total stinkers. The engineers responsible were neither engineers, nor responsible.
 
#34
Agree with multiple comments re design... these cabinets were not designed by an engineer, they were designed by an accountant! Perhaps it's luck, then, that even so it produces a really cool tone within its SPL limits. Now that rattles are fixed, it makes an awesome studio cab for mic'g or lighter rehearsals for old school sounds IMO. When I need more "air strike", ....Punch and clarity, I use my GK 410-RBH cab. :thumbsup:
 
#35
Even with much better speakers, these cabs were not designed by a cabinet designer. They were just boxes meant to yield the most usable material from 4x8's. Vintage may be cool, but most old Fender cabs just sucked as bass cabs.
 
#37
I always felt like the primary design criterion for this particular cab was to make it appear as large as it could while still being smaller than a Dual Showman.

I've observed on these pages before just how odd it is that the company that practically invented the bass guitar never did seem to develop any understanding about how to amplify the dang thing.
 
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#38
JMV said:
Agree with multiple comments re design... these cabinets were not designed by an engineer, they were designed by an accountant! Perhaps it's luck, then, that even so it produces a really cool tone within its SPL limits. Now that rattles are fixed, it makes an awesome studio cab for mic'g or lighter rehearsals for old school sounds IMO. When I need more "air strike", ....Punch and clarity, I use my GK 410-RBH cab. :thumbsup:
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Gonna have to respectfully disagree. Can't speak for the 15 cabs but if you've never heard [better yet, felt] a 2x12 Bassman sporting EV Pros or, according to @treyandres, Mesa Neo 12's, driven by a sufficiently powerful amp, you've not experienced everything these cabs have to offer. Amazing punch and clarity. I've compared mine to both Bergantino 610 and Ampeg 810, given the same power amp they couldn't deliver the same girth as a Bassman 212. My bet is the 215 would be the same.

Everyone should pursue their own path to achieve their tone objectives. However, these cabs should not be dismissed out of hand. Given the right power and speakers, they can and do deliver the goods.
IMG_1840.JPG
 
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#40
Redbrangus said:
I always felt like the primary design criterion for this particular cab was to make it appear as large as it could while still being smaller than a Dual Showman.

I've observed on these pages before just how odd it is that the company that practically invented the bass guitar never did seem to develop any understanding about how to amplify the dang thing.
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A bass cabinet in the 50's, and 60's and even the 70's was a guitar cab with beefier speakers. It wasn't just Fender, nobody really understood bass cab design and physics.
 
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