• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join freeLog in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

SVT-CL: Mixing Power Tubes

I have an SVT-CL with a blown tube. The amp was actually running and sounding fine on 5 power tubes for some period of time. I have played a couple gigs since the last time I checked the bias and today bias 2 refused to flip green. After further inspection it turns out one of the tubes popped. As luck would have it, no spares on hand.

I am planning on picking up a matching tube tomorrow, assuming they have one in stock. If the local place doesn't have one the only real option is getting a different brand tube to tide me over while I order a proper replacement.

To my question...

Is there any specific risk to running different brands of the same tube type? If so, what is the risk?

Thanks
 
yeah, I have no plans to run on 5 tubes. I am really just looking to replace the one tube until I get a replacement set (It's sort of due for a full rack anyhow). The problem is I don't feel like paying $30 in shipping and I need to get through a couple gigs before I will have a chance to change them all out. My assumption is I can get by with a single odd ball for at least a little while without any serious impact on the health of the amp.
 
From your post it sounds like you need at least 2? You have been running on 5 and lost another tube (with its mate also stressed and not far behind). They run in triplets, one side does the push and the other the pull. One tube missing makes two tubes run harder and one side of the output transformer to be over stressed.
 
ok, let me clarify... I just found the blown tube. There was no indication it was out until I tried to bias the tubes. Its been a month or so since I last checked the bias so it could have been running 5 tubes net for a while and I never noticed.
 
Hi.

I am planning on picking up a matching tube tomorrow, assuming they have one in stock. If the local place doesn't have one the only real option is getting a different brand tube to tide me over while I order a proper replacement.

Without testing the old tubes, it's virtually impossible to find a matching tube.
It can be done by a tech though.

My assumption is I can get by with a single odd ball for at least a little while without any serious impact on the health of the amp.

That's a lot to assume.

Is there any specific risk to running different brands of the same tube type? If so, what is the risk?

The risk is that since the SVT doesn't have individual bias adjustments, the tubes in the triplet are incorrectly biased and You blow a tube or the output transformer.

Good luck.

Regards
Sam
 
When I owned an SVT head, before it became a "CL," I would always purchase 6550 tubes in pairs. Then if one blows, you replace the pair, tweak the bias, and have a spare in case something blows in the middle of a gig that you then have something to get you through the rest of the night.

SVT transformers are hefty enough that probably no damage has occurred to the head, but stress means heat and heat damages over time, so the less stress the better. I recommend purchasing a matched pair to replace the one that has blown and its push-pull mate and keeping the odd tube for another emergency.
 
When I owned an SVT head, before it became a "CL," I would always purchase 6550 tubes in pairs. Then if one blows, you replace the pair, tweak the bias, and have a spare in case something blows in the middle of a gig that you then have something to get you through the rest of the night.

SVT transformers are hefty enough that probably no damage has occurred to the head, but stress means heat and heat damages over time, so the less stress the better. I recommend purchasing a matched pair to replace the one that has blown and its push-pull mate and keeping the odd tube for another emergency.
Sounds like a good plan on the surface, except for one small detail...power tubes in SVT's are tied together in triplet sets, not pairs ;) But hey, doesn't matter to you now.
 
I know I'll catch flack for this, but there's no reason not to run on 4 tubes in a pinch (at least balance both sides by pulling the odd tube) until you get a triplet, unless you play the amp flat out normally. I'm not sure how you'd gain match a single replacement tube of a different brand unless you could measure the ones you have in the amp. Manufacturers and distributors generally write a number on matched tubes that's meaningful only to them. If you get close, a single tube will work fine. These things aren't that easy to kill. Especially SVT output transformers and Hammond 1650Ws. ;)
 
  • Like
Reactions: iiipopes
Hi.

Why would you blow the OT if the tubes aren't matched?

Because of the inability to bias the tubes correctly and the resulted current draw mismatch.

Any time a tube fails, especially when operating outside it's designed parameters, it's a potential to an OT damage.

Since the reading is for 3 tubes, there's no way of knowing how the tubes are biased.
One tube can be severely out of whack while the reading is perfectly acceptable.
If one uses bias probes and is able to swap tubes back and forth for most balanced operation, that's another matter alltogether.

When I owned an SVT head, before it became a "CL," I would always purchase 6550 tubes in pairs. Then if one blows, you replace the pair, tweak the bias, and have a spare in case something blows in the middle of a gig that you then have something to get you through the rest of the night.

I recommend purchasing a matched pair to replace the one that has blown and its push-pull mate and keeping the odd tube for another emergency.

About the worst thing one can do with a SVT.
Worse IMO being to suggest that for someone else as a recommended thing to do.​


Sounds like a good plan on the surface, except for one small detail...power tubes in SVT's are tied together in triplet sets, not pairs ;)

+1.

Mismatching both banks on purpose is just very ignorant considering how long these kind of things have been known.

Regards
Sam
 
Yeah, once Bill Hughes said they can withstand an 8 ohm load no problem, I couldn't see losing two tubes creating a problem for the OT, either. OTOH, after once having a tube die on me between initial turn-on and the start of the gig, I've decided the best plan of action for this situation is to have a micro backup because working on a tube amp during a gig is no fun. Try finding those little black screws for the back after one accidentally rolls off the amp onto a dark stage floor sometime.
 
Sounds like a good plan on the surface, except for one small detail...power tubes in SVT's are tied together in triplet sets, not pairs ;) But hey, doesn't matter to you now.
Back then, it did not matter if all six are matched. What matters is that each pair matches, working from both sides, and if there is a single bias, the "happy medium" was selected when trimming the pot. And back then, there was more consistency between tubes. If a player kept with the same brand of tubes, the amp did not need to be re-biased every time a tube was changed, only if after a few years there was some "drift," and a little bit of distortion started to be noticed when the amp was cranked. Notice I said "a tube," because it didn't matter. Tubes were consistent. "Matched pairs" from a marketing standpoint is an early '80's sort of thing starting with Groove Tubes, after the USA tube factories had shut down and everything had to be sourced from Russia and China. Initially, quality was so bad some tubes would flash out the first time they were turned on, so they had to be tested and matched. So the "matching" has gone from being a way to make sure you got a pair of tubes that would actually work, to now being a religion.

I never cared for the tone of 6550's other than in an original run SVT. The original SVT preamp stack, including such gems as 12DW7's, was the only preamp that I thought tamed the harshness. I preferred, for guitar purposes, Sylvania big-bottle 6CA7's in my 1975 Marshall first-year 2203. They have 6550 plates, but a different grid structure, so they bias like EL34's, but are cleaner, like a good RCA 6L6GT, but with more cajones. I prefer the clarity over the Mullard midrange, um, er, "complexity" that Les Paul beaters prefer. I never bothered with KT66's or KT88's, and the other lesser used octal beam power tubes, like 7027's, because of other wiring upstream, including bias, that had to be done to make them sound their best, and because some of the KT66's & KT88's are simply re-branded 6L6's and 6550's, and are not worth the premium.

You're right, partially. When I sold the SVT because I didn't want to carry it around anymore, the kicker was when it was due for a complete re-tube, and when I priced the tubes then, twenty-odd years ago, the cost approached what I paid for the head used. Instead, I purchased a Carvin PB300 that was my only head for the next twenty years, until I decided I did not want to carry it around, either. Now I have a class D Carvin MB12 combo on top of a homemade 1X15 on casters.

I stand by my statements and recommendations. There is no reason to purchase all six power tubes if only one goes bad. Only a pair is needed, and bias just really is not that critical, although it is obviously important for efficiency and tube life. So if the mantra is going to be purchase all six and match them every time, then here is the link to the RCA tube manual bible. 6550's are described on pages 483-484. You can read for yourself the wide parameters they can operate under. Invalid Link Removed If a player is that picky, he can read the numbers off the labels on the other four, and order his replacement pair accordingly from one of the on-line specialists, like The Tube Store or Tube Depot. Then go back and read page 9 of the SVT-CL manual and read about how the bias can be set on a pretty wide range, depending on what the player wants out of the amp. Or, you can go here and do it the old fashioned way: http://ampworkshop.yuku.com/topic/1976/Biasing-an-Ampeg-SVT#.VDotZGPu3IU . Notice all they say is get good tubes; they do not obsess on how they match, because the biasing will take care of it. I always biased mine a little cooler so the tubes would last longer.

My SVT was as reliable as the sun rise, and that is how my tech and I took care of it. The only reasons I sold it were 1) I didn't want to spend the money keep feeding it, and 2) it was heavy, and I hadn't had children yet.

On re-reading the above posts, it is very apparent that nobody has bothered to mention, just taking it for granted, or worse, misinterpreted, that when you replace the pair, you replace the blown tube and its counterpart on the opposite side of the stack, not two that are side-by-side, unless it is the pair in the absolute middle. So if the outside tube on one side is the blown one, you purchase the pair, and replace the outside tubes on both sides. If it is the #2 tube in from one side or the other, you replace both #2 tubes counting in from both sides, and if it is a tube in the middle, you replace the two middle tubes so the push-pull load remains balanced so there is actually something there to bias.
 
Last edited:
You're only half right. You don't need to replace all 6 if one goes, but they work in triplets, not pairs, so you have to replace 3 to keep the matching accurate, not two. SVT's have two bias points, not separate bias for each individual tube, and each bias point controls three of the tubes.
 
You're only half right. You don't need to replace all 6 if one goes, but they work in triplets, not pairs, so you have to replace 3 to keep the matching accurate, not two. SVT's have two bias points, not separate bias for each individual tube, and each bias point controls three of the tubes.
B%!!$#!+. Class AB amps work in PAIRS!!! An SVT is a push-pull amp, just like almost every classic tube bass and guitar amp ever made. There are three pairs in an SVT, not two "triples." That's why they are called "push-pull" amps, and why you replace tubes in pairs. I gave everyone the link to the RCA tube "bible," now go read it and educate yourselves to how they actually work, especially pages 25-37. Yes, there are two bias adjustments on this newer SVT-CL head, and they work on either side of the stack, but you still replace the tubes in pairs as I described, because the resulting bias is the happy medium of how each half of the push-pull processes the signal as a whole. You still have to think about the circuit in terms of three pairs.
 
Last edited: