SVT IR compatibility question for HX Stomp experts

[Guiseppe]

I'm looking at buying a HX Stomp next week; I'm new to IR's (actually am a long time bass player building out my first pedalboard, so be gentle, huh? lol) the goal is to see if it's possible to use Ampeg's official SVT Suite as an IR? I know there are Ampeg-like presets on the Stomp, I'm specifically asking if it's possible to add the Suite because I'd like to use its cabs along with my SV-Pre. What do you Ampeg purists love in the way of IR's for the Stomp? I love classic rock, motown soul, fusion, and blues, and one other tone option I might add into the mix is a Broughton Audio Fliptop pre to go along with the SVT flavor...

 

[loukash]

I don't use any IRs, so I don't know what they are about and if there's anything "special" about them.
But given that Ampeg is part of the Yamaha Corporation just like Line 6, I'd expect the built-in Ampeg cab blocks to be very carefully crafted.

For what it's worth, for bass guitar I'm using mostly the SVT4 amp block with the 1×12 Epicenter cab block, sometimes also the 4×10 Ampeg cab block.

Also, keep in mind that in the built-in cab blocks, you can choose a plethora of mics as well as their position and distance. All these variables can make a big difference to the final sound, with tons of nuances. All that is not possible with IRs where you need to switch them one by one.

 

[silky smoove]

I found most of the built-in HX Stomp IRs to sound quite dreadful and not at all like their real-world counterparts. Maybe that's me being a snob, but I've heard similar complaints from others. Regarding the Ampeg Suite, unless you can extract the actual IRs from the software package I do not see a way of using it within the HX platform. I would just grab the Shiftline HD Bass IR pack for very little money and enjoy super high quality IRs that work great within HX.

 

[loukash]

most of the built-in HX Stomp IRs to sound quite dreadful and not at all like their real-world counterparts

Well, since you can change so many parameters on each cab block, it's not all too hard to make them sound… er, "dreadful"…

Hint:

1. add a Looper block to the preset
2. record a bass loop
3. tinker with all the Cab block parameters, incl. various mics, until you find the setting that suits your style
   position, distance, angle, hpf, lpf, you name it, everything matters

Also to keep in mind:
It's not meant to sound like a cab in a room. It's meant to sound like a cab recorded with a microphone.
If you need a "real-world counterpart", then get the real-world counterpart…

 

[loukash]

Also, when playing bass guitar live, usually I use my old SWR Workingman 12 as my stage monitor, going from the Stomp Send output into the FX Return of the SWR, with the Send being before the Cab block. Whereas the Cab block goes to Main out and from there directly to FOH. I'll then leave it up to the sound guy to make something of it.

 

[MartinB]

Here's the same clip through a paid IR (Redwirez), a free IR (Seacow), and the Helix cab:




Same cab, same mic, same position (Ampeg 8x10, SM57, centered at 0"). To my ear they are much of a muchness, but you be the judge.

 

[silky smoove]

Well, since you can change so many parameters on each cab block, it's not all too hard to make them sound… er, "dreadful"…

A bad sounding IR will likely remain bad sounding regardless of how much DSP you throw at it.

Hint:

1. add a Looper block to the preset
2. record a bass loop
3. tinker with all the Cab block parameters, incl. various mics, until you find the setting that suits your style
   position, distance, angle, hpf, lpf, you name it, everything matters

See above

It's not meant to sound like a cab in a room. It's meant to sound like a cab recorded with a microphone.

…and where would this microphone exist? In a room. Having recorded many IRs for myself and for clients in my studio I can assure you that the microphone goes in a room.

If you need a "real-world counterpart", then get the real-world counterpart…

Which is useless when playing live on an ampless stage.

 

[kyral210]

I'm looking at buying a HX Stomp next week; I'm new to IR's (actually am a long time bass player building out my first pedalboard, so be gentle, huh? lol) the goal is to see if it's possible to use Ampeg's official SVT Suite as an IR? I know there are Ampeg-like presets on the Stomp, I'm specifically asking if it's possible to add the Suite because I'd like to use its cabs along with my SV-Pre. What do you Ampeg purists love in the way of IR's for the Stomp? I love classic rock, motown soul, fusion, and blues, and one other tone option I might add into the mix is a Broughton Audio Fliptop pre to go along with the SVT flavor...

No, you cannot use the suit with your HX stomp.

Also, the stock cabs are actually IRs and they sound great. I’ve tried buying IRs but ended up just going for stock because they sound better.

 

[MojoPin]

Ultimately any amps or cab IRs you use either stock or DL'd you are going to have to tweak them. Sometimes that means splitting the signal and blending in your original signal, or your original signal and effects, etc... it's a to-taste situation. The HX is powerful in terms of classic Ampeg sounds just stock, it just takes time and a little bit of patience tweaking them. Ian Martin Allison uses them quite extensively and his presets are incredible. I use a Origin Effects Super Vintage Bass Rig when I want SVT sounds it has everything from the tone to the feel of what I imagine an SVT must sound like (from recordings as well), minus the wind flapping your pant legs. Though I get some wind moving with my 6x10 and Super Bassman.

 

[murphy]

Here's the same clip through a paid IR (Redwirez), a free IR (Seacow), and the Helix cab:




Same cab, same mic, same position (Ampeg 8x10, SM57, centered at 0"). To my ear they are much of a muchness, but you be the judge.

You do need to "Pump it up!"

 

[logdrum]

The free ShiftLine SVT IRs are one of the best. I think the pack comes with 3 models - A Heritage, Probably a CL -- Maybe only 2 SVTs the 3rd one is 115 .

Also on tone3000.com are more SVT IRs and they are usually free -- some of the contributors use it as a teaser for their packs

I thought IRs are one time shot with minimal adjustability, Anything where you can adjust mics is physical modelling.

 

[logdrum]

But given that Ampeg is part of the Yamaha Corporation just like Line 6, I'd expect the built-in Ampeg cab blocks to be very carefully crafted.

HX Stomp and that old Line 6 architecture has been designed before Yamaha took over. I bet the initial crafting was done on a framework to suit the hardware they had at that time and I think it is already old and out dated. I am glad they are still supporting it but I do not see them doing an entire rewrite of the basic software - that will be costly. I think @silky smoove observations are spot on about the bass cab models in the stomp.

 

[Guiseppe]

Well, since you can change so many parameters on each cab block, it's not all too hard to make them sound… er, "dreadful"…

Hint:

1. add a Looper block to the preset
2. record a bass loop
3. tinker with all the Cab block parameters, incl. various mics, until you find the setting that suits your style
   position, distance, angle, hpf, lpf, you name it, everything matters

Also to keep in mind:
It's not meant to sound like a cab in a room. It's meant to sound like a cab recorded with a microphone.
If you need a "real-world counterpart", then get the real-world counterpart…

+1 for you! I planned on having a Ditto on my board for that very purpose. If the Stomp has that capability then that just removed one of the pedals on my board...hmmm that gives me room to add a 2nd Pre...Grrr I totally understand how bad GAS can be on pedalboards now...

 

[Guiseppe]

A bad sounding IR will likely remain bad sounding regardless of how much DSP you throw at it.


See above


…and where would this microphone exist? In a room. Having recorded many IRs for myself and for clients in my studio I can assure you that the microphone goes in a room.


Which is useless when playing live on an ampless stage.

Agreed. A turd is still a turd. Since you have some experience on the Stomp and getting good amp sounds, I'd like to ask your opinion: I saw a YT post where the author said he thought cab IR's he added were ALL much better than the ones that came w/ the Stomp. Do you think that is a fair statement? I'm trying to gain other's opinions/tips in the next couple weeks while I assemble everything and build my board.

 

[silky smoove]

Agreed. A turd is still a turd. Since you have some experience on the Stomp and getting good amp sounds, I'd like to ask your opinion: I saw a YT post where the author said he thought cab IR's he added were ALL much better than the ones that came w/ the Stomp. Do you think that is a fair statement? I'm trying to gain other's opinions/tips in the next couple weeks while I assemble everything and build my board.

I generally found all of the bass IRs to be bad sounding within the Helix platforms. The guitar IRs are okay. Frankly, for the low cost of the Shiftline HD Bass IR Pack, there's really no reason to use bad sounding IRs. The Shiftline ones are exceptional and actually sound like the cabinets they're capturing. This is all based on my personal taste. Your experience might be different.

 

[Guiseppe]

I generally found all of the bass IRs to be bad sounding within the Helix platforms. The guitar IRs are okay. Frankly, for the low cost of the Shiftline HD Bass IR Pack, there's really no reason to use bad sounding IRs. The Shiftline ones are exceptional and actually sound like the cabinets they're capturing. This is all based on my personal taste. Your experience might be different.

I appreciate the insights. The Shiftline IR's have been mentioned in a few posts I've seen, they are definitely on my radar now. Much obliged!

What do you think of the SVT presets that came w/ the Stomp?

 

[silky smoove]

What do you think of the SVT presets that came w/ the Stomp?

I never used any of their presets, so I can't say.

 

[loukash]

HX Stomp and that old Line 6 architecture has been designed before Yamaha took over.

Line 6

Create, record and perform with guitar in new ways.

line6.com

Firmware
Version 3.50.0
Released 11/3/22
Works with: HX Stomp

Helix/HX 3.50 (released November 3, 2022) includes 24 new cabs running on an all new cab engine, 5 new amps, 7 new effects, new features, additional improvements, and bug fixes, and is strongly recommended for all users.

[…]

New Bass Cabs
Four bass guitar amplifiers are displayed, featuring various designs and speaker configurations.
Cab > 1x15 Ampeg B-15 (Single, Dual), captured from* the 1×15″ Ampeg® B-15
Cab > 2×15 Brute (Single, Dual), captured from* the 2×15″ MESA/Boogie® 2×15 EV
Cab > 4×10 Garden (Single, Dual), captured from* the 4x10" Eden D410XLT
Cab > 8x10 SVT AV (Single, Dual), captured from* the 8×10″ Ampeg® SVT® (SVT-810AV Heritage Edition)

Mic—Select from up to 12 mics:
57 Dynamic—Shure SM57
421 Dynamic—Sennheiser MD 421-U
7 Dynamic—Shure SM7
88 Dynamic—Beyerdynamic M88TG
52 Dynamic—Shure Beta 52A
112 Dynamic—AKG D112
D6 Dynamic—Audix D6
40 Dynamic—Heil Sound PR 40
4038 Ribbon—Coles 4038
414 Cond—AKG C414 TLII
47 Cond FET—Neumann U47 FET
67 Cond—Neumann U67
All other parameters the same as for guitar cabs (see above)

[…]

(emphasis mine)
More cabs have been added in subsequent FW updates.
These are the cabs to use.

Of course, the legacy cabs are still available as well.