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SWR baby blue 5 inch replacement

natas

natas

Mar 14, 2013
288
36
#1
Hi, i own an swr baby blue version 1. I want to replace the 5 inch speaker in it. Seems like it is not working, can not quite get the highs i need. Any recommendations that are not so expensive? I am currently looking at the pyle PDMW5 but looks like it is designed for car speakers?
I am also swapping the 8 inch ones with dayton audio pa200. TIA
Also, anyway i can check what is wrong with my 5inch speaker?
 
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#2
natas said:
Hi, i own an swr baby blue version 1. I want to replace the 5 inch speaker in it. Seems like it is not working, can not quite get the highs i need. Any recommendations that are not so expensive? I am currently looking at the pyle PDMW5 but looks like it is designed for car speakers?
I am also swapping the 8 inch ones with dayton audio pa200. TIA
Also, anyway i can check what is wrong with my 5inch speaker?
Click to expand...


Definitely check to make sure the 5" driver is blown before you replace it. The problem may be a blown component in the HPF or a loose wire.

Why are you replacing the 8s and have you done any modeling to ensure the Dayton PA200 is a good choice?

You can't just throw a random driver into a cab and expect it to perform well with bass. The internal volume of the cab and any ports form a Helmholtz resonator. This resonator must be tuned to work in conjunction with the Thiele-Small (T/S) parameters of the drivers. Typically the T/S parameters are listed on the drivers datasheet.

Above the tuning frequency the driver and cab will work as a sealed system. At some point as the frequency goes lower, the driver's response will begin to roll off. The frequency where this occurs depends on the volume of the cab and the T/S parameters of the driver. The port is then tuned to start becoming resonant where the driver starts rolling off. The idea is for the port to smoothly extend the cab's response to a significantly lower frequency. The volume of the cab, dimensions of the port, and T/S parameters of the driver all have to work together, so you can't just throw a random set of drivers in the cab and guarantee good results. Cab + Driver = a Tuned System.

In addition, since this is a two way design, the sensitivity rating of the 8 and 5 must be at a certain dB rating or the response will not be even. It's possible that the original 5 was significantly more efficiently than the 8s, so a pad was used in the HPF to match levels between woofers and mid driver.

My memory is the Baby Blue sounded fabulous, but lacked headroom and produced an awful distortion when it ran out of power. If you are going to go through the trouble of replacing all of the drivers, I suggest that you consider investing in the highest efficiency 8s you can afford that will work well in the cab. The sensitivity of the PA200 is listed as 92.4dB 1W/1m which is rather low.

Also the PA200 is an 8 ohm speaker. I believe the original drivers were 16 ohms. If you run the PA200s, this will present a 4 ohm load, which is the minimum the amp is rated for. This means you will not be able to run an extension cab.

Sorry. I am really not trying to discourage you. But I do want you to have some idea of what is necessary if you want the amp to perform well.

Good luck!
 
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#4
Wasnex said:
Definitely check to make sure the 5" driver is blown before you replace it. The problem may be a blown component in the HPF or a loose wire.

Why are you replacing the 8s and have you done any modeling to ensure the Dayton PA200 is a good choice?

You can't just throw a random driver into a cab and expect it to perform well with bass. The internal volume of the cab and any ports form a Helmholtz resonator. This resonator must be tuned to work in conjunction with the Thiele-Small (T/S) parameters of the drivers. Typically the T/S parameters are listed on the drivers datasheet.

Above the tuning frequency the driver and cab will work as a sealed system. At some point as the frequency goes lower, the driver's response will begin to roll off. The frequency where this occurs depends on the volume of the cab and the T/S parameters of the driver. The port is then tuned to start becoming resonant where the driver start rolling off. The idea is for the port to smoothly extend the cab's response to a significantly lower frequency. The volume of the cab, dimensions of the port, and T/S parameters of the driver all have to work together, so you can't just throw a random set of drivers in the cab and guarantee good results. Cab + Driver = a Tuned System.

In addition, since this is a two way design, the sensitivity rating of the 8 and 5 must be at a certain dB rating or the response will not be even. It's possible that the original 5 was significantly more efficiently than the 8s, so a pad was uses in the HPF to match levels between woofers and mid driver.

My memory is the Baby Blue sounded fabulous, but lacked headroom and produced an awful distortion when it ran out of power. If you are going to go through the trouble of replacing all of the drivers, I suggest that you consider investing in the highest efficiency 8s you can afford that will work well in the cab. The sensitivity of the PA200 is listed as 92.4dB 1W/1m which is rather low.


Also the PA200 is an 8 ohm speaker. I believe the original drivers were 16 ohms. If you run the PA200s, this will present a 4 ohm load, which is the minimum the amp is rated for. This means you will not be able to run an extension cab.

Sorry. I am really not trying to discourage you. But I do want you to have some idea of what is necessary if you want the amp to perform well.

Good luck!
Click to expand...


Thanks. I am really a noob at this field. Anyway, i got this without the 8in speakers.
Anyway, i have asked some people here and they checked and computed volume etc and accdg to them the pa200 seems like a good replacement. However i have not forseen that i may need to replace the 5in speaker too. So it should be compatible to the pa200 speakers? What particular part should i be looking at? Sorry if i dont make sense.
 
#7
natas said:
Anyway, i have asked some people here and they checked and computed volume etc and accdg to them the pa200 seems like a good replacement. However i have not forseen that i may need to replace the 5in speaker too. So it should be compatible to the pa200 speakers? What particular part should i be looking at? Sorry if i dont make sense.
Click to expand...

Cool!

I believe @agedhorse used to have some affiliation with SWR and he may be able to give you an informed answer on the sensitivity of the original drivers. This would help you choose a 5 that will work with the sensitivity of the PA200s.

FYI, Faital makes some 16 Ohm 8s, with a sensitivity rating around 95dB. I could not tell you if any of them model well in the Baby Blue. Also, Faitals tend to be significantly more expensive than the PA200. May not be worth the extra cost given the age of the amp.
 
#8
natas said:
Anyway, looking now at parts express. What type of speaker should i be looking at? Full range? Tweeter? Reference? Midbass? I really have no idea right now
Click to expand...

I believe the 5" will be some sort of mid range...but give Agedhorse some time. He tends to be very active and pop in and out.
 
#9
Wasnex said:
Cool!

I believe @agedhorse used to have some affiliation with SWR and he may be able to give you an informed answer on the sensitivity of the original drivers. This would help you choose a 5 that will work with the sensitivity of the PA200s.

FYI, Faital makes some 16 Ohm 8s, with a sensitivity rating around 95dB. I could not tell you if any of them model well in the Baby Blue. Also, Faitals tend to be significantly more expensive than the PA200. May not be worth the extra cost given the age of the amp.
Click to expand...

actually it is one of the choices i had together with the eminence betas and alphas. Agedhorse also offered a neo speaker pair, however due to covid restrictions at that time, i had no means to have it shipped here in the philippines so i went with the daytons
 
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#10
One of these may be an acceptable choice They get progressively more expensive from top to bottom. Agedhorse is the most qualified to say what you need.

I am assuming you need an 8 ohm driver and the Baby Blue has chamber for the driver, I.E. it is not necessary to use a special driver with a sealed rear chamber. If this assumption is incorrect, there are sealed back drivers in Parts Express's catalog.

First is a Dayton full range driver. I think the Sensitivity will probably be a bit low at 88.2dB 1W/1m with a 50W RMS power rating. Frequency response is 90hz to 15K
Home

This is a Celestion mid driver with a listed response to from 130hz to 5K, 91dB 1W/1m sensitivity, and 30W RMS power rating. The sensitivity may still be a bit low, and I am not sure if the power rating is high enough. The highs don't extend as much, but it should balance a lot better than the Dayton. Home

This is another full range driver. It has a 91.4dB 1W/1m sensitivity rating and a 100W RMS power rating. Frequency response from 150hz to 18K. At $64, by far the most expensive. Home

There are also some potential choices in the HiFi 5" category. There is a Faital 5" mid with a very high sensitivity of 99dB 1W/1m, but it costs $125. There is also two Faital midbass driver with response to 6K for about $40, but the sensitivity is down at 88dB 1W/1m. Possibly other choices as well, but the cost is high.

Good luck!
 
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#11
Wasnex said:
One of these may be an acceptable choice They get progressively more expensive from top to bottom. Agedhorse is the most qualified to say what you need.

I am assuming you need an 8 ohm driver and the Baby Blue has chamber for the driver, I.E. it is not necessary to use a special driver with a sealed rear chamber. If this assumption is incorrect, there are sealed back drivers in Parts Express's catalog.

First is a Dayton full range driver. I think the Sensitivity will probably be a bit low at 88.2dB 1W/1m with a 50W RMS power rating. Frequency response is 90hz to 15K
Home

This is a Celestion mid driver with a listed response to from 130hz to 5K, 91dB 1W/1m sensitivity, and 30W RMS power rating. The sensitivity may still be a bit low, and I am not sure if the power rating is high enough. The highs don't extend as much, but it should balance a lot better than the Dayton. Home

This is another full range driver. It has a 91.4dB 1W/1m sensitivity rating and a 100W RMS power rating. Frequency response from 150hz to 18K. At $64, by far the most expensive. Home

There are also some potential choices in the HiFi 5" category. There is a Faital 5" mid with a very high sensitivity of 99dB 1W/1m, but it costs $125. There is also two Faital midbass driver with response to 6K for about $40, but the sensitivity is down at 88dB 1W/1m. Possibly other choices as well, but the cost is high.

Good luck!
Click to expand...


Thanks! Looking actually at dayton full range and the pyle pdmr 5 at parts express. Just not sure what to look for
 
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#15
The non Bag End 5" sounded only slightly different and fit easily in my BBII. In 8"s I had the OEM Bag Ends. The surrounds corrode. The replacement Celestions were sweet sounding. Next were the LDS Long Throws. These made the amp sound like a bigger bigger amp. The next were purpose made Neos. The whole amp is much lighter. Wouldn't matter if they sounded meh. They sound like best attributes of all the types I've gigged.

Why was I going through 8"s? I was gigging up to three times a week for years with an Ashbory. When I'd crank it I would occasionally lose one. The Celestions got replaced because neither was blown but the little lead to the cone was touching the cone making a rubbing sound. Found that out during replacement. Oops. It's all good because one of the Celestions went in my SWR LA-8. Made it a monster. You can crank it all the way and the tone possibilities exceeded it's original budget price point. A Summit TD-100 into the line in made it outstanding.

Yes. BBII is quite great sounding.
 
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#16
natas said:
Hi, i own an swr baby blue version 1. I want to replace the 5 inch speaker in it. Seems like it is not working, can not quite get the highs i need. Any recommendations that are not so expensive? I am currently looking at the pyle PDMW5 but looks like it is designed for car speakers?
I am also swapping the 8 inch ones with dayton audio pa200. TIA
Also, anyway i can check what is wrong with my 5inch speaker?
Click to expand...
The original had Bag End 8's then they switched to celestion 8's that were Kevlar
 
#17
chadds said:
The non Bag End 5" sounded only slightly different and fit easily in my BBII. In 8"s I had the OEM Bag Ends. The surrounds corrode. The replacement Celestions were sweet sounding. Next were the LDS Long Throws. These made the amp sound like a bigger bigger amp. The next were purpose made Neos. The whole amp is much lighter. Wouldn't matter if they sounded meh. They sound like best attributes of all the types I've gigged.

Why was I going through 8"s? I was gigging up to three times a week for years with an Ashbory. When I'd crank it I would occasionally lose one. The Celestions got replaced because neither was blown but the little lead to the cone was touching the cone making a rubbing sound. Found that out during replacement. Oops. It's all good because one of the Celestions went in my SWR LA-8. Made it a monster. You can crank it all the way and the tone possibilities exceeded it's original budget price point. A Summit TD-100 into the line in made it outstanding.

Yes. BBII is quite great sounding.
Click to expand...


What 5incher did you use as replacement?
 
#18
Im seeing E5-S for the Bag End 5 inch.

It shows as a 16 ohm.

I would confirm what you are looking for.
If the crossover was designed for a 16 ohm driver
you need a 16 ohm driver

The PA200 8" speakers are around 92 dB
so a pair will be around 94/95 dB

Most 8 ohm 5 inch drivers are only around 88 to 91 dB

Dayton also makes a pro Audio 5" it is available in 8 or 16 ohms.
PA-130

I dont see any data for the original 5" bag end driver.
usually 5 inch 16 ohm drivers have very low sensitivity around 83/85 dB

Could explain why the output seems minimal anyways.
5 inch drivers are good for off axis response.
But sensitivity is usually poor.

More common to use a 6.5 inch for better sensitivity.
Or a array of 2 to 4 5" speakers

Sealed back is a way to cheat a little for higher sensitivity.
But involves a more dramatic crossover design.
Since sealed back midranges have much higher impedance peaks
 
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