I'll bet that Ovation sounded clean and crisp. Mine is long gone. I think I needed to trade it for a 5-string I wanted. Occasionally, I think back and wish I still had it and the Electric Blue I had. They really sounded good.
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SWRBabyBlue
- Thread starter GibbyM
- Start date
I'll bet that Ovation sounded clean and crisp. Mine is long gone. I think I needed to trade it for a 5-string I wanted. Occasionally, I think back and wish I still had it and the Electric Blue I had. They really sounded good.
Not to be arguementative but, here is an excerpt from the specifications in the Baby Blue II manual. Notice where it says "(internal speaker complement)" after the 4ohm rating? My Celestions were 8ohm, wired in parallel. I've attached the manual for your to see.
SPECIFICATIONS
Maximum Power at 1KHz Under Clipping
120 Watts RMS @ 8 ohms (head only w/ 8 ohm speaker enclosure)
160 Watts RMS @ 4 ohms (internal speaker complement)
180 Watts RMS @ 2.6 ohms
200 Watts RMS @ 2 ohms
Another except:
Total Impedance
4 ohms
8" Loudspeaker
Low resonance
1.5" voice coil
30 oz. magne
60 watts continuous sine wave power handling capacity
Shallow cone design for low distortion
Impedance: 8 ohms
Your BB2 was made by Fender after Steve sold the company. Note the different, heavier stainless grill. Your manual is a different, more updated version, and your cab apparently had a different version of the Celestion speaker than mine did. Note the refs to FMIC for repair service. Mine ref'd "bring or mail the unit back to our factory in Sylmar, CA" for warranty repairs. Your BB2's specs were different from mine. My manual only listed two power outputs, 120 at 8 ohms and 160 at 4 ohm. The version of my amp only went to 4 ohm when the second speaker was attached. I bought my BB2 pretty soon after SWR released it. Steve sold me on it at a party. The amp back then was only distributed at a few high-end local shops, mainly Nadine's in Hollywood, which is where I bought it, at a friendly discount Steve arranged. I researched the Celestion BDG8-60's pretty thoroughly when I went to replace speakers, and like the BagEnd's that they replaced from the BB1 the impedance was 16 ohm. Celestion listed them as 16/8 ohm, meaning it depended on how you wired them. So we are both correct. Thank you for the manual, I'd send you mine but I put it with the BB2 when I left the unit out for some poor soul who is now no doubt wondering what can of worms he/she opened trying to fix it?
The Ovation sounds fabulous, unplugged or plugged into the BB2. Unfortunately it is as uncomfortable to play as is possible, with its deep bowl back, but the tone makes it worthwhile. Be happy that at least you got something in trade for your SWR, mine just went to the common area, free to anyone who wanted to attempt to fix it. Lasted a long time though.
I haven't tried the Ovation yet with my replacement amp, the Fender Rumble100. The bass is waiting for me to change it's strings, sitting in my closet while I diddle around with my electrics, which sound great on the Rumble.
Mine was made in July of '97. Fender didn't buy SWR until 2003. Yes, I saw the grill in the manual. It is a later edition manual, but the heads never changed, at least before Fender took over. Look at the grill on the pic of mine that I posted.
Correct, but...
Fender was working with SWR for almost 10 years before they bought them lock, stock and barrel, including A/R, in 2003. They moved production from SWR's original shop somewhere in that time line. Steve phased out over that time period. Agedhorse, who used to work for Fender, said they made changes to impedance along the way. FMIC referenced in your manual means Fender Musical Instrument Corp. Fender took over certain functions, not sure how many or when, but some of the internals of the amp changed as well as in the speakers. I believe you, when you say your speaker cab is 4 ohm. Believe me when I say mine was 8. Also note that the SWR's Henry Cab speakers, the BG8-60's, were not the same as the BDG8-60s in my BB2 cab. The BG8-60's were 32 ohm speakers. There is no info that is authoritative on what exactly the BDG8-60's were, though I have found references to 16/8. Anyway, there aren't any out there new or used, and I never multi-metered mine, so end of story.
Fender was working with SWR for almost 10 years before they bought them lock, stock and barrel, including A/R, in 2003. They moved production from SWR's original shop somewhere in that time line. Steve phased out over that time period. Agedhorse, who used to work for Fender, said they made changes to impedance along the way. FMIC referenced in your manual means Fender Musical Instrument Corp. Fender took over certain functions, not sure how many or when, but some of the internals of the amp changed as well as in the speakers. I believe you, when you say your speaker cab is 4 ohm. Believe me when I say mine was 8. Also note that the SWR's Henry Cab speakers, the BG8-60's, were not the same as the BDG8-60s in my BB2 cab. The BG8-60's were 32 ohm speakers. There is no info that is authoritative on what exactly the BDG8-60's were, though I have found references to 16/8. Anyway, there aren't any out there new or used, and I never multi-metered mine, so end of story.
- Feb 12, 2006
- 61,035
- 5
- 220,956
- Disclosures
- Development Engineer-Mesa Boogie, Development Engineer-Genzler (pedals), Product Support-Genz Benz
Like I suggested, it was a complicated journey that SWR took through their ultimate landing zone at Fender. Not without missteps either.
Yes. Steve Raab was a great guy and very creative, and really dedicated to getting the best possible sounds out of things. My friend knew him well, and was a big entertainer, spent $$$$$ on audiophile equipment, held many wild parties with Steve and KennyG, etc. When I met him, Steve was talking about putting tubes into mics, which I thought was insane, but he had a local following and a relatively small shop building his creations. My impression, from what I heard and saw of him, was he was more the creative engineer and less the business guy. I think he probably had a rough time merging into a giant organization like Fender, must have been a little traumatic to say the least. I know people say the QC fell apart as that relationship moved forward. I think Steve was pulling away. He only lived to be 72, too bad. Everyone liked him.
- Feb 12, 2006
- 61,035
- 5
- 220,956
- Disclosures
- Development Engineer-Mesa Boogie, Development Engineer-Genzler (pedals), Product Support-Genz Benz
Steve had sold out in 1997, long before Fender acquired the brand in 2003.
Fender shut down SWR in 2013, prior to shutting down Genz Benz and other brands in 2014.
Fender shut down SWR in 2013, prior to shutting down Genz Benz and other brands in 2014.
Yes, thank you for that info. I lost touch with our mutual friend, due to a mutual disagreement, right about that time, maybe a year earlier, so did not get any further info about Steve.
Fender makes a great product. It's just hard for the big companies to play nicely with the smaller, more creative ones. Too bad.
I understand marine environments as my WA home is in the Puget Sound. This amp has been at water's edge for about a decade now, and the surrounds look the same. This is one where I think extremely dry air would be more harmful than damp air.
Yes, my guitar player friend who started me on bass back in '72 lives on Bainbridge Island. He doesn't have as many problems with rubber/plastic/paper rot as I do in L.A., living near the marina, where we get a mix of desert air and marine layer. Stuff just disintegrates here.
Now residing in Colorado for the last 30 years and originally from the sunshine state (FL) I can remember as a kid sitting in a hot car and pushing my fingers through the passenger dash speaker in my dads 70s Chevy Bel air wagon. yea, he was Pissed off royally when only fuzz came out of the right side! so the irony is how paper cones have advanced! of course down there everything turns to rust from the salt air and the sun makes things brittle. Here in Colorado I've also noticed how things become brittle, but without the rust! to rehash the babyblue topic<after removing the grill and vacuuming off the dust, i find no issues as of yet to the cones or condition. The original babyblue, I acquired in a moving sale when I was searching for a chair and saw the amp, spoke to the sellers, as one of the sellers is a bass player. He mentioned the amp being suitable for a standup bass he also thought about purchasing this amp. i don't believe he was the owner, however we did have an in depth conversation on how he remembers SWR and was familiar with SWR. i bought it not knowing if it worked and i thought it would just sound plain...or ordinary and i would flip it. My father is in a rehab after 1 month ago when the paramedics were called when he couldn't get up off the floor after falling and my mom "bless her heart" could not lift him up... my dad is old school at the age of 90..he always loved radio and as a young man became a ham operator...and after his retirement he went back to one of his passions of using his codes with ham spending hours in a chair making alerts and defining his passion from a young boy who's father was a very gifted man involved with experimentation, electricity and patents , i had my first guitar at the age of 12 never amounting to much as a guitar player and giving it up for a decade or more and here and there until 3 years ago when i spent to much money on effects and guitar amps, then selling most of it off keeping only a few things. I thought creating a sound could be done by buying expensive gear! my experimentation with this amp is as is. I am a guitar player. I am inspired by both the bass world and comments posted! my dad says Jimi hendrix was the best guitar player or among one of the best! it has always been a dream of mine to play in front of my father with something i am proud of doing! the sound i get from this amp sounds between a mesa and a vox with my gibby. thankyou for everyone's interest in the SWRBabyblue and ill post from time to time.
- Feb 12, 2006
- 61,035
- 5
- 220,956
- Disclosures
- Development Engineer-Mesa Boogie, Development Engineer-Genzler (pedals), Product Support-Genz Benz
I lost my 90 year old dad last year, he was an EE and I followed in his footsteps.
At that age, folks are always only one step away from a fall, very scary stuff.
At that age, folks are always only one step away from a fall, very scary stuff.
Here’s a picture of the original Bag End 8” Drivers on the original Baby Blue. I my have my description wrong but I had a pair of these speakers and the surrounds are some kind of rubber composite that eventually dries and crumbles or cracks.
I know what you mean but in my case the surrounds on the 8" speakers disintegrated. Glue also failed on the dust caps. It's not a complaint though. Those parts lasted almost 30 years before having those problems. And putting new speakers in wasn't a huge challenge. That amp is still going and is my daily driver in my home/teaching studio.
- Feb 12, 2006
- 61,035
- 5
- 220,956
- Disclosures
- Development Engineer-Mesa Boogie, Development Engineer-Genzler (pedals), Product Support-Genz Benz
That's a deterioration due to failing materials, not wearing out (in my book anyway).
Drivers that are taken care of can last 50+ years fairly easily, but the foam surrounds did tend to fail due to deterioration of the material. The later cloth surrounds version didn't suffer from this.
You might be interested in another thread about SWR amps and the history that re-activated yesterday after a very long dormancy when someone posted to it,. It originated back in early 2000's, most of the posts are pre-2006, when there were more of the amps around. It is 15 pages long so put on a pot of coffee before you start it. I read through it yesterday, quite a strain on the eyes but so much information there that I did not know about the origin and development, ultimately demise and extinction, of the brand.
Sorry about your Dad. I lost mine a long time ago, and he was only 75. It's not easy. And yes, I think most of the original rock guitar greats back in late 60's would agree with you. Clapton wanted to quit when he saw Hendrix first play in England. Blew them away. Proof it's not always technical skill or having "best" equipment that makes a great player, sometimes it's just having a fresh approach to the instrument?
The facts around this have been argued to death on this board, so I'm reluctant to throw more wood on the fire, but if you dig a bit you can find a necro thread from early 2000's that banters around the details of the story. I think you will find the most factual account there. Summary, it said Fender made an "investment" in SWR back in early 90's, and in GrooveTubes. Somewhere in that timeframe SWR moved from Steve's garage into a warehouse building that they shared with Groovetubes, in Sylmar, CA (North SF Valley). I think that's where my BB2 was made, it's the address indicated in my Owner's Manual for returns for repairs. There is more history in the thread if you can find it. There is no real detail on what the nature of the investment or arrangement between Fender and SWR was at the early point.
Curious, did you work for SWR, or for Fender?
