"Tapping Instrument" or "Bass?"

[zaubertuba]

My apologies, we had a little "debate" start on the "Show Your Basses" thread regarding me posting my instrument on that thread. Being one who is not afraid to engage in some mind-stretching debate, but not wanting to muddy that thread anymore, I'm posting this so we can continue the debate here. I'm quoting the original posts so people can see the history.

First...my original post (with just one pic.)

Got my NS/Stick last week!


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GAS Completely cured! - I'm having an absolute blast with this instrument!

...and the responses that took us a little off-topic in the "Show Your Basses" thread:

I know some people are gonna hate me for this...specially the owner but I realy don´t like these kind of basses. Not just this one, but in general all 6(+) string, BIG, weird shape, brown/woody basses (cause they all come in wood-colour hehe) like the LG 3006 and others on this same thread.

Sometimes I also think these should be classified as a different instrument? Please just don't get me wrong Maybe that's because I'm a 4string-fan... But apart from the looks (which I dislike), those big 6-12 string realy play (tapping) and sound more like a guitar than a bass to me.

So....am I that wrong?

I don't know... I think it's a really nice looking instrument and sounds great, but personally I don't think I could call it a bass guitar.

Each to their own though

I'm in the same boat. You can keep your $15,000 Pau Ferro/Bloodwood, 7 string, quad pick-up'd bass which lookslike all the other basses that cost that much, and I'll keep my Fenders/Epis/Rickys/Laklands etc.

No you are not wrong. What makes you happy makes you happy. My 6 string makes me happy so I don't care what others think. I can make some good music with the instruments I have and if we worried about what others think of out choice then we would all play the same thing. I am glad there are choices. I can get by playing a 4 but I would prefer the flexibilty of 5 and 6 string basses. I could only have one string and if I am playing the low end and supporting the music then I am playing bass. Get over how many strings are there!!!!

No hate from me. You're certainly entitled to your opinion. Though I love the look of it, beauty is certainly in the eye of the beholder (and I've had other people who know me say as much about this instrument). No harm done.

Honestly, I wouldn't even had posted it here, but the instrument is so versatile it could be classified any number of ways. I view myself as a bassist, and play it (so far) primarily as a bassist, so to me it's a bass--with 4 extra strings that enable me to do cool things.

I'd go back to playing upright bass, but if you haven't seen my other posts, you wouldn't know that I had an RSI injury 20 years ago and can't play upright (or any high string tension-instruments, for that matter) anymore. I tried out a 36" scale "signature" Ibanez fretless at the local guitar store a month or so ago and it was awful compared to the megatar I had been playing--took a ridiculous (for me) amount of pressure to play and the sustain was non-existent. Yuk!

...So, after a 20-year hiatus, this "multi-mode/tapping" instrument is basically allowing me to be a bass player again (working on "bass-player+" --we'll see if I actually ever get there).

BTW, though, this particular instrument isn't "big" at all. 34" scale length. The case is smaller than a guitar case. It weighs 8 pounds, and feels less than that because all the weight is well-balanced in the body. Ergonomics and light weight (again, due to my previous injury) was another reason I went this route.

But, to answer your question, I can totally see people not "getting in to" this kind of instrument. I guess that's why there's "tapping instrument" forums, but again, I think I'll always be a bassist at heart. For me this instrument happened to be just the right thing. "suum cuique"

Now, I thought about making this discussion specific to the NS/Stick, which was actually designed more as a "multi-mode" instrument than a "tapping" instrument, but in the interest of a broader, more flourishing discussion, let's keep it open to all viable guitar/bass tuned "tappers" out there.

Bass, Guitar, or something else? Thoughtful and respectful debate and diametrically-opposed viewpoints are encouraged. Flaming and flame-inducing comments, of course, are not.

 

[Spinal Tapper]

that's cool lookin. can you pluck it?

I always say: if you can play a bluegrass bass line on it, it's a bass

 

[spade2you]

It is a bass. It isn't a bass. It's what you want it to be. End of story.

 

[SanDiegoHarry]

hmmm... Looks like a Chapman Stick gone wild...

 

[Archaeobass]

Send it to me. I'll give it a thorough inspection and let you know if its a bass or not. Then I'll send it back (no I won't).

Do want.

 

[Darkstrike]

I'll tell you what it is...









...awesome.

 

[yellofury]

Its a neat instrument
but I think instruments like this and the Chapman Stick are their own unique
stringed instrument and not basses per se
that's just my opinion

still they are cool

 

[duckbutter]

I'll tell you what it is...









...awesome.

What he said!!!

 

[caeman]

I would simply say that it is not a TRADITIONAL bass guitar. Many instruments in the world have a bass versions, some of which have nearly no resemblance to its tenor and soprano cousins. And some are more bassier than others.

Maybe a new general term like "Tap Bass" is needed for this variant of the guitar theme. We readily accept Lap Guitars as "guitars".

So, I would say it is a bass. But I would then argue that "bass" is just a generic term and if you really want to be a pedant, start specifying variants.

 

[stepswork4me]

These and "Chapman's" have peaked my interest for MANY years. I tap a lot on bass, whole pieces, and think that I could really flourish with one of these. Would I still consider myself "a bassist" while playing this? Yes, Sir, I would. It's the role that I understand. I don't understand it as below a certain fret with 4 strings and supporting the rest of the band, though.

 

[gttim]

I thought it was a Klingon Bird of Prey!

If you can play the bass line for "Train Kept A Rollin'," it would be a bass.

 

[caeman]

It would be overkill for a bluegrass band, but if you are a bassist playing melody-like lines, it would seem to make such a thing an easier task.

 

[Ian Perge]

Firstly, all the hate posted in the original thread was bile-inducing - a number of them blatantly breaking the CUP rules about discussions regarding Extended Range Instruments and should be called out for it, which the NS/Stick and other members of the Stick family certainly fall into. No member here should have to put up with that when proudly displaying their new instrument.

I've had a fascination with the Stick since the mid-'90s and one day I'll jump in the saddle and pony up for one (10-String with a bass-register tuning - hopefully while Emmet is still making them himself). I think your NS/Stick is an amazing instrument (check out Don Schiff, who IMO is the "Master Of The Instrument" just as Emmett and Greg Howard are the same on the "standard" Stick as well as the more recent variations such as the Alto Stick and others) and I love that you can now get it as well as the bamboo-build Sticks in dyed colors - it gives them a great new "refreshed" look after 30+ years of mostly dark woods (Ironwood, Rosewood, etc). In my opinion all of the Stick & Stick-esque instruments are "basses" depending on a number of factors: the tuning, how it's played both physically as well as solo or with other instruments and what role it takes in either, amplification, etc. But can it serve the role of a "bass" in whatever context you'll use it?

...you're damn straight.

 

[conqr]

Personally I think the term Extended Range Bass accurately covers any bass 6 strings or over (I still call 5ers 'bass'). They quite literally extend the range of traditional basses, and are things of sonic beauty and wonder in the hands of masters.

 

[dionysusolympus]

otherwise known as the zombie paddle.

 

[envy1400]

ive been trying to figure out why some people like to hate on ERB basses but i can't come up with a good reason. I guess some people become skeptical because they are afraid that the player is going to shred because they have an extended range. But with regards to you posting on the show your bass thread who cares if you post the pic. i think its a cool looking bass (i'd say its a bass if you play it like one and it strings include the standard range)

 

[Dave Klausner]

I've played Chapman Stick on and off since '83. In bands, I've been in the role of the bass, the role of the guitar, and in what may have been the most fun, I was in the touring version of a band supporting a record that had Bernie Worrell playing mad, funky, clav all over it, and it fell on me to cop his parts. So an instrument like that can be a bass, something else, or a bass plus something else.

I had the chance to hang out briefly with Tony Levin a while back. He told me he doesn't even tune the treble strings on the Stick since he never plays them. So in his case, you have a monster player holding down the low end with Peter Gabriel, King Crimson, etc., on what is essentially a 5 string instrument. How is that not a bass?

 

[zaubertuba]

that's cool lookin. can you pluck it?

The five bottom strings are spaced wider so you *can* pluck it, yes. It also has an adjustable damper at the first fret so you can change "on-the-fly," so you can either tap or play fingerstyle on open strings.

I always say: if you can play a bluegrass bass line on it, it's a bass

I thought it was a Klingon Bird of Prey!

If you can play the bass line for "Train Kept A Rollin'," it would be a bass.

LOL - Now there's some nice "simple" criteria to follow!

hmmm... Looks like a Chapman Stick gone wild...

You're pretty close--it's actually a collaboration between Emmett Chapman and Ned Steinberger.

Send it to me. I'll give it a thorough inspection and let you know if its a bass or not. Then I'll send it back (no I won't).
Do want.

LOL..."They can have my NS when they pry my cold dead fingers"...oh nevermind.

I'll tell you what it is...

...awesome.

What he said!!!

Firstly, all the hate posted in the original thread was bile-inducing - a number of them blatantly breaking the CUP rules about discussions regarding Extended Range Instruments and should be called out for it, which the NS/Stick and other members of the Stick family certainly fall into. No member here should have to put up with that when proudly displaying their new instrument.

Thanks guys - I wasn't actually expecting all the positive comments, but it's nice to have my initial (positive) impressions of this forum reinforced.

As far as the other thread, I didn't think the posts were *too* inflammatory, but was surprised to see my posting precipitate a debate...of course I allowed myself to get dragged into it.

I have seen some other threads get bogged down briefly in "semantics," so I guess I think as long as people are civil there's no problem asking questions, we just need to be asking them in the right places and in the right way.

These and "Chapman's" have peaked my interest for MANY years. I tap a lot on bass, whole pieces, and think that I could really flourish with one of these. Would I still consider myself "a bassist" while playing this? Yes, Sir, I would. It's the role that I understand. I don't understand it as below a certain fret with 4 strings and supporting the rest of the band, though.

I really think you'd get a kick out of the NS. I've started tapping *more* on the instrument as I've found it's so easy to tap on.

...I was in the touring version of a band supporting a record that had Bernie Worrell playing mad, funky, clav all over it, and it fell on me to cop his parts. So an instrument like that can be a bass, something else, or a bass plus something else.

That...had to be wayy cool!

...They quite literally extend the range of traditional basses, and are things of sonic beauty and wonder in the hands of masters.

I've had a fascination with the Stick since the mid-'90s and one day I'll jump in the saddle and pony up for one (10-String with a bass-register tuning - hopefully while Emmet is still making them himself). I think your NS/Stick is an amazing instrument (check out Don Schiff, who IMO is the "Master Of The Instrument" just as Emmett and Greg Howard are the same on the "standard" Stick as well as the more recent variations such as the Alto Stick and others)...

Those guys are definitely monsters, and I in no way think I could aspire to be as good as them, but it's inspiring to watch them, all the same. Greg just posted a video of his quartet, playing groovy basslines and jazzy guitar comp parts (and then some...) and when I watched it I was like..."Wow! That's exactly some of the kinds of things I'd like to be able to do in our trio!"

In my opinion all of the Stick & Stick-esque instruments are "basses" depending on a number of factors: the tuning, how it's played both physically as well as solo or with other instruments and what role it takes in either, amplification, etc. But can it serve the role of a "bass" in whatever context you'll use it?

...you're damn straight.

...i think its a cool looking bass (i'd say its a bass if you play it like one and it strings include the standard range)

...So in his case, you have a monster player holding down the low end with Peter Gabriel, King Crimson, etc., on what is essentially a 5 string instrument. How is that not a bass?

I guess that really more is my approach...what you call it is much more a function of how you play it. Don't know what that means as I get more familiarized with the "high side" of the instrument.

 

[srdsrd]

So... since I actualy started this debate, and know some hate seems to be dropping on me, I would like to, once more, point out that I mean no disrespect or to upset new instruments owners

Just like the way a lap guitar, for me is not a "guitar", more than 5 strings on a bass just...doesn't feel rigth. The finger style, the slapin' and the plucking disappears in these instruments (not that its impossible, but every time I whatch one being played is always being tapped).

If it doesn't look like, play like or... sound like most of tradictional basses, maybe they deserve a new classification among instruments!

I was just curious if I was the one feeling this way.

 

[zaubertuba]

So... since I actualy started this debate, and know some hate seems to be dropping on me, I would like to, once more, point out that I mean no disrespect or to upset new instruments owners

Thanks for coming on over, srdsrd! Again, no hate from me--I just didn't want to derail the "Show Your Bass" thread any further.

Come on in...the water's fine.

Just like the way a lap guitar, for me is not a "guitar", more than 5 strings on a bass just...doesn't feel rigth.

At least as far as "standard" tapping instruments (that might be an oxymoron, lol), you have a valid argument. The string spacing on the Megatar I played made playing standard fingerstyle somewhat awkward...

...but that's why I bought the NS. If you look closely, the first five strings are actually spaced wider, much closer to what you'd see on a standard bass:

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So...I *can* pluck more easily on this particular instrument, and slap, too!


Now, in all fairness, the instrument requires a lighter touch to play in any style. A *much* lighter touch. This may be off-putting to those who like to "dig in" for their tone. I actually bought this instrument from a guy who was more that kind of player.

....But personally, light touch is what I need, if I'm going to be able to play at all.

If it doesn't look like, play like or... sound like most of tradictional basses, maybe they deserve a new classification among instruments!

I was just curious if I was the one feeling this way.

I guess what it comes down to is what is your definition of "traditional." I'm sure there was a point not too long ago where double-bassists looked down their noses at bass guitars saying "that's not a *real* bass." In the meantime, advances in the development of the instrument made a wider variety of genres possible.

...and it's all happening again.

Technology's fun, innit?