I wasn't, but when someone tries to inject their opinion in a "let me school you, kid" statement it's KIND of challenging lol.
Huh... not intended that way at all. Don't see it in a re-read either, but my apologies if you thought I was kicking at your shins.
It's not like I'm speaking from playing the stuff in a store, I own and gig on it as well.
A VT through a "hi-fi" cab? Didn't get that impression, you listed lots of traditional cab combinations. I own and gig on the very combination you thought didn't make sense. And the reasons you gave didn't match up for me on paper/theory, let alone in my daily reality.
Well the point of flexibility wasn't on the menu...I was referring to getting the classic SVT tone as close as possible with the VT
The flexibility allows getting out whatever you feed it with minimal hassle and tweaking. And getting sound from a VT is on the menu. I would argue that given the design, capabilities, and intended use of the VT, that it IS going to be the closest possible. If the sound is there in the VT, it's coming out of cab that way, same as it would to FOH or a recording desk.
and whether they had 3-way cabs in mind when they designed it...IOW, were they counting on the person using it having a mid-range driver? I simply assumed they did not, which may or may not be correct.
Given my familiarity and long experience with Tech21 products, and with the usage scenarios they recommend, I would say they definitely did. Like I said, their original product was focused more toward direct FOH and recording use. Full range full frequency systems that will absolutely have the midrange well covered, whether they are a 4-3 way with dedicated mid drivers or 3-2 way with a low reaching HF section.
Pretty much all of their later products have retained that functionality, even the simpler character series pedals with only 1/4 unbalanced outputs. It's right there in the manuals.
Cab size? Cone type? Drivers? Ported/sealed? This stuff matters in any cab
Of course it does. It all contributes to the sound of the cab. But put them all together, then look at the whole system... the resulting cabs can be divided more or less into two categories. 1. Traditional cabs that (intentionally or not) introduce a lot of color to the sound. 2. "Hi-fi" cabs that do not, or at least do it to a much, much lower extent. (No speaker is flat of course, but some are way flatter than others.)
The speaker emulation in the VT is meant to simulate the sound of an Ampeg 810 with multiple mics on it. And deliver all of the color it provides. (Theoretically, anyway... in reality one can get close, but never exact. And "which" Ampeg 810 do they mean anyway? A modern SVT810e, or an old flatback, or what?)
Play it through a "colored" cab, and you have to take that coloration into account. Tech21 has already been in this thread explaining that their cab simulation takes into account that it can and will be used that way, and is tame enough that the results will still be good.
Play it through a non-colored cab, and it's a lot simpler. You get pretty much exactly what they designed it to sound like, the same sound they expect you to get when using it as a DI box to FOH or recording desk, as stated in the manual.
You mentioned that direct into a power amp (or power section of a head) is the way to go. That's because you are getting less coloration by "other things", and more of the straight VT sound. Well, the same goes for the cab. Take the color out of the cab equation too, and you're getting more of the straight VT. It was designed to be able to be used that way, so it should sound good. I can confirm it does. I already named my cab, if you were asking those questions (size, drivers, porting, etc) about my cab, the answers can all be found [Invalid or Expired Link Removed].
I refer you back to my statement on what it was designed to be played through and that it's in the context of getting as close as possible. For some people they want the same ballpark, others want it right on home plate. To each his own. FWIW, I'm sure it does sound good through your cab. Again, refer to the "were they counting on a mid-driver" statement above.
I've covered that pretty thoroughly by now, but to recap... yes, they were, yes it was, and I think it gets closer than a traditional cab... as close as you're going to get short of going out and buying an all-tube SVT head and 810, and making JimmyM proud. Maybe certain Ampeg heads would get closer than VT+power, but there's no cab emulation there, so it might be a little different than this case.
With how scooped the mixing is these days on CDs and how the speakers reflect the "smiley face" EQ'ing, I'd have to hear that to believe it. Believe me, working in Car Audio install...we had a lot of free time to think up stupid things to do lol. Can't say I heard any speakers that didn't fart out on the mids getting pumped out by my record player. "Farty" was an understatement!
Surely good, well balanced car audio systems exist. Maybe not the 2-way Kickers you mentioned, but I'm not familiar with those. I assumed you were referring to just one component in a full system. Can't remember all of the pieces I had, but I built a pretty good one in the old Vette. Dual 15" JL subs, some smaller woofers & mids, & tweets of course, all on a decent crossover network. PLENTY of mids with no farting. The stock system in the SRT8 Magnum ain't too shabby, either. Mids are fine there. The old Mustang... nothing at all in that, maybe I have the original bits in a box somewhere.
It's a lot closer to 480 than 720. If you ever want to be entertained for an hours solid, try telling someone who just shelled out $2,500 on a new TV that they need something else to make their DVDs look decent...castigation ensues lol.
Yes, it is. But isn't that (not explaining the end result of HDTV with their existing equipment) the fault of either the salesperson that sold them the TV to begin with, or their own for not doing any research?
That doesn't solve their issue with standard def cable, though.
Same thing there... they should have known that before they bought the set to begin with. Take the opportunity to sell them a good OTA antenna and tell them they can get lots of other stuff cheaper by streaming (Netflix, Hulu, Amazon, etc) through their Blu Ray player if they have a good internet connection already, and they could just cable entirely. That's what I did.
I am vastly curious about where you get film stock though!
I don't have access to any, but the people that made the Blu Ray discs in my collection obviously do.
Nobody's getting grumpy, just keeping the convo straight and separating opinions from something quantifiable. If I take a serious tone, it's because I'm passionate about what I do....which is waste time on here instead of working or doing something productive!
No prob, and lol.
I don't get the issue with my Ric/SVT/Mic/FOH scenario, though. Is that not what the audience hears in an ideal scenario? (Spectors and SB4000 in my case, but I'd do it with a Ric too.)
"Style" is the name of the game there, and I think you got it on the automobile aesthetics end of things..minus the speaker systems
80 Vette, 67 Stang, and a big red Mag SRT8 that can spank both of 'em silly, even with my whole family & bass rig on board.
And if I put a tweed grill and Ampeg logo on my cab, most folks couldn't tell the difference. (Look at
JohnK's Starliner 215.) Though any bassists in the crowd would probably suspect something fishy there, with it being shorter and narrower than an 810.
All in fun, I wouldn't take it (and I don't to yours, in all seriousness) personally. We're having fun on here, but sometimes forget to pull the punches when debating. As with any of that stuff, we're having different experiences with our VT's and there's 10514 variables to how we've gotten to that point depending on how we have our VTs set alone.
Yep, no biggie.
But go ahead and try it out, it's easy. Record something direct from your VT and play it back on various things. In particular, play it back on a full FOH system with subs. That's what it sounds like through my cab.
If I saw you rocking it with a 3-way cab, I'd probably high five you after the show and tell you about how much better redheads are than other chicks
As would I, on the first count. On the second... my black haired wife would likely be nearby, and be VERY interested in my response, being aware of my previous history with various reds.
So of course even if I did agree (I don't... almost, but no), you know what the answer must be.
Cheers.
