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That vintage almost roundwound slap

H

HF1600ie

Feb 14, 2020
74
16
#1
Hi,
I don´t use pick. Only finger attack.
I am also not a fan of roundwounds or "zing" in my sound. However, I know that many bass players used them in the 70s or even 80s and got a tone has no zing in it, but still, it bites very well while still sounding vintage. Well, it wasn´t back in the day, but today it is vintage !

The first flatwound strings that I bought were " Roberts 40-95 Flatwounds". While they dont feel like true slick flatwounds (thinking of Pyramids or Labellas in this regard), but more like a flattened roundwound string, they´re sound is also in the ballpark of what I like. They are darker sounding roundwounds without any zing.

I also tried TI Flats and liked them. Lots of volume, vibration and a beautiful feeling. But after a while, I missed the bite and low-mids. They could have more agressiveness to it.
Tried Labella 760FL. Sounded nice for a week or two, then, it wasn´t my cup of tea and felt a bit like metal wires.

I read about GHS pressurewounds, but as soon as someone mentioned "zing" I started looking elsewhere. Same for TI roundwounds or Roto77. Never used any of these.

Are there any strings that feel close to the texture of the TI flats or even just a bit more textured without getting into roundwound texture? And still, sounding like dead roundwounds ? I like a lot that old school precision Slap from the late 70s or even 80s. The "Fat" slap, not scooped Jazzbass kind of slap (like Marcus miller, eventhough I like his work). And I can´t get that tone with roundwounds using the tone control, neither I like the texture of most roundwounds.

My "Robert Flatwounds" are cheap stuff, but they almost nailed it for me. The concept is there, but once they are long break-in (2-3 years), a bit more clarity would be nice. But. they have no "zing" and the slap is kind of a barky one which I like.

Listen to this at minute 28:00 and 34:00 :

[1984] BIT / B I T (Full LP) - YouTube

Or this, all track :

Hair - Age of Aquarius (HQ AUDIO REMASTER!) LOUD! (Best Version) (youtube.com)

Would like to find something similar and still in production.
 
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#6
CTW68 said:
Have you tried ground wound strings? They were my first thought when I read "no zing in it, but still, it bites very well while still sounding vintage."
Click to expand...
HF1600ie said:
Thanks, but i don't not know any. Is there a brand ?
Click to expand...
- D'Addario Half-Rounds (pure nickel); sets ENR70 (40-60-75-95), ENR71 (45-65-80-100), ENR71 (50-70-85-105)

- GHS Brite Flats (Alloy 52 which is nickel+iron) came stock in at least some Music Man StingRays in the late '70s; sets L3075 (45-56-77-98), M3075 (49-62-84-108), ML3075 (52-65-84-103)

- Elites Groundwound (stainless steel); 45-65-85-105

- Magma Ultra Flats (stainless steel) are super-polished, externally flat-like groundwounds, reportedly very bright when new; sets BE140SUF (40-60-75-95), BE150SUF (40-60-80-100), BE160SUF (45-65-80-100), BE170SUF (45-65-85-105)


- Ernie Ball Slinky Flatwound (cobalt alloy) are true flat metal ribbonwounds, that are in groundwound territory tone-wise; sets 2815 (40-60-75-95), 2814 (45-65-80-100), 2813 (45-65-85-105), 2812 (50-70-85-105), 2811 (55-75-90-110).


All the above are also available in 5-string; D'Addarios and Magmas in 6-string, too; Ernie Ball and GHS in short scale; GHS in medium scale.
 
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#9
That's very kind forma lol of you. Thank you so much for the suggestions. In terms of texture I like something between a TI flat and a round wound. So, perhaps a true Flat is out of the equation for now.

In terms of sound, imagine q very worn out round wound but with some extra warmth. Hugh end only has the bite, no zing whatsoever.

It's all a matter of what I can order from where I live, in Portugal.

I also like low(er) tension, but most 39/40 G strings fel thin in those. Maybe a 45-95 is the way to go to me.

Now, with all those offers, I have so much to choose from that I don't even know where to start !
 
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#10
The first stings I think of for that "dry" 70s slap tone with no "zing" are the GHS Brite Flats. These strings are definitely not for everyone. They are rather stiff and the tone is... different. At first I didn't like them AT ALL but they've grown on me. They sound rather uninspiring when playing alone but it's a tone that "sits" nicely in a mix. There's none of the "clank" you get with GHS Pressurewounds. The Brite Flats are much warmer/mellower. Also, the stiffness means the Brite Flats can handle lower action without buzzing. Do NOT judge these strings until you've set up the bass specifically for these strings. They're not the most articulate strings out there (and that's putting it mildly). Most bass players seem to hate them. But for that zing-less "old school" slap tone I think they might be exactly what you're looking for. Like flats they'll need some break-in before they mellow out into their signature tone.

The gauges are a bit weird though... The medium-light set has a lighter gauge E-string, but heavier gauge D/G-strings than the medium set??? I believe one of these two sets were the stock strings on Stingrays back in the day, but I can't remember which one? They're also available as a MUCH lighter gauge set with a .098 E-string. All the sets have rather strange/unbalanced gauges.

They're also extremely sticky/grabby when new but this will get much better over time.

The texture is somewhere between flats and rounds. These are GROUNDwounds, not pressurewounds. Basically roundwounds that they grind down to a semi-smooth surface.

These are Alloy52 strings. But the Brite Flats don't have the aggressive, clanky mids that I hear in every other Alloy52 strings I've played. The Brite Flats are very mellow sounding, but not as dark/thumpy as "old school flats". Definitely more mellow than TI flats though!
 
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#11
Bass4ThePublic said:
A lot of those old recordings used fresh roundwounds like roto 66’s, but are still relatively warm sounding because of the Tube amps that were often used. What you want is some kind of vintage themed tube amp
Click to expand...

I'll have to disagree with this.

Fresh Roto 66s will still sound VERY bright and "zingy" through a tube amp.

A good quality, properly designed tube amp should be just as bright sounding as a solid state amp, if you want it to be. I suspect the whole tube=mellow thing must come from all the sub-standard, cheap "toob" pedals/preamps that are sold these days, with starved plate tubes and a muddy tone.

Maybe also due to the fact that the cabs/speaker that were used with bass amps "back in the day" didn't have the high frequency extension and the bright, zingy tone of modern cabs. But that's because of the speakers/cabs, not the amp.

A broken-in set of Roto 66 is another matter. This can give you a VERY fat, warm tone. And Rotos need a relatively short break-in period (which is also the main complaints about Rotos, from bass players who want Rotos for their fresh, bright tone).

Also, a lot of those classic "old school" 70s slap tones didn't use amps at all, but were recorded direct. In fact, that's a huge part of "THAT" 70s slap tone tone IMO.
 
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#12
HF1600ie said:
That's very kind forma lol of you. Thank you so much for the suggestions. In terms of texture I like something between a TI flat and a round wound. So, perhaps a true Flat is out of the equation for now.

In terms of sound, imagine q very worn out round wound but with some extra warmth. Hugh end only has the bite, no zing whatsoever.

It's all a matter of what I can order from where I live, in Portugal.

I also like low(er) tension, but most 39/40 G strings fel thin in those. Maybe a 45-95 is the way to go to me.

Now, with all those offers, I have so much to choose from that I don't even know where to start !
Click to expand...
Possibly in part due to some sort of dry spell in European distribution of GHS strings, my google-fu hasn't had much luck with their L3075 (45-98) set.
Available for a little over 60 euros (delivery included) here (a webstore I generally recommend)
GHS L3075 Brite Flats Light Bass Electric 4 string
and here (select the "Zoundhouse - Dresden" option)
https://www.amazon.de/dp/B0002F6ZA2

Delivery costs not clarified upfront here
Cordes - CORDES GUITARES BASSES - Cordes pour basse - Brite
Three weeks' wait from North Carolina
https://www.amazon.com/Ghs-Bass-Guitar-Strings-L3075/dp/B0002F6ZA2/
 
As an Amazon Associate, TalkBass may receive commissions from qualifying purchases made via links on this site.
#13
I think i´m going to go the GHS "pressure wound" route. Thinking about it, what I am looking for is probably more of a Semi-round string then a Semi-flat string :) I almost got (or eventually, I did got) this tone from my "Roberts Flatwounds 40-95" strings when they were brand new. Now they have a lot of milleage on top but still look good. Sometimes I slack them, slap and clean with alcohol and re-tighten to get some bite back for a few weeks. It works, but eventually the tone inevitably goes into a worn out semi-Flat territory again and in reality I´m looking for a tone that with time goes into a Semi-Roundwound territory or close to a new Semi-flat tone. The tone when the strings are new is not my reference. I need to focus on the tone after break-in period because if I like it, I can use it for years.

So, It´s time to use the Roberts Flats as a backup. I believe they´re a discontinued UK brand, made in Korea.

After being broken in, perhaps they will contribute for that dry slap sound that I much aim for and still able to do some kind of flatwound work, except that extremely dead flatwound tone, such as the one in Labella os Pyramids. That´s a thing on their own which I like, but dont want at the moment.

The only kind of GHS PW set I can access is the 40-95. This is the gauge I have been using since always in my Precision Bass. I wouldn´t mind using a 45-105 set as I´d like a beefier G, but it´s not available locally.

Can´t wait to test them. Probably will do a concert with them with just a handful of days in and eventually they will sound brighter and more metallic than I´d like. But hopefully time will make them great.
 
#15
Bass4ThePublic said:
A lot of those old recordings used fresh roundwounds like roto 66’s, but are still relatively warm sounding because of the Tube amps that were often used. What you want is some kind of vintage themed tube amp
Click to expand...
I would disagree. I think the idea of putting fresh strings on, just before recording session was not typical at that time. Bass players would play strings they got on the bass untill they snapped or got rusty.
Playing soul music in a regional tribute band for 5 years, my preference were always dead-ish roundwound strings and clean amplification.
Of course, YMMV.
 
#16
HF1600ie said:
Hi,
I don´t use pick. Only finger attack.
I am also not a fan of roundwounds or "zing" in my sound. However, I know that many bass players used them in the 70s or even 80s and got a tone has no zing in it, but still, it bites very well while still sounding vintage. Well, it wasn´t back in the day, but today it is vintage !

The first flatwound strings that I bought were " Roberts 40-95 Flatwounds". While they dont feel like true slick flatwounds (thinking of Pyramids or Labellas in this regard), but more like a flattened roundwound string, they´re sound is also in the ballpark of what I like. They are darker sounding roundwounds without any zing.

I also tried TI Flats and liked them. Lots of volume, vibration and a beautiful feeling. But after a while, I missed the bite and low-mids. They could have more agressiveness to it.
Tried Labella 760FL. Sounded nice for a week or two, then, it wasn´t my cup of tea and felt a bit like metal wires.

I read about GHS pressurewounds, but as soon as someone mentioned "zing" I started looking elsewhere. Same for TI roundwounds or Roto77. Never used any of these.

Are there any strings that feel close to the texture of the TI flats or even just a bit more textured without getting into roundwound texture? And still, sounding like dead roundwounds ? I like a lot that old school precision Slap from the late 70s or even 80s. The "Fat" slap, not scooped Jazzbass kind of slap (like Marcus miller, eventhough I like his work). And I can´t get that tone with roundwounds using the tone control, neither I like the texture of most roundwounds.

My "Robert Flatwounds" are cheap stuff, but they almost nailed it for me. The concept is there, but once they are long break-in (2-3 years), a bit more clarity would be nice. But. they have no "zing" and the slap is kind of a barky one which I like.

Listen to this at minute 28:00 and 34:00 :

[1984] BIT / B I T (Full LP) - YouTube

Or this, all track :

Hair - Age of Aquarius (HQ AUDIO REMASTER!) LOUD! (Best Version) (youtube.com)

Would like to find something similar and still in production.
Click to expand...


I’m not from the 70’s era but Ive done a lot of research as I love the tone of paul Jackson and Freddie Washington.

The answer for your question is they used rotosound swingbass 66 steel strings and didn’t change them.

Freddie Washington slap tone on “forget me nots” was a well worn in set of rotosound swing66 bass strings, fender p bass with rosewood fretboard and Bartolini 8s pickups.

paul Jackson during his time with herbie and headhunters was again well worn in rotosound swing66 strings, his Geraldine bass (ash body maple neck) and HI-A pickups (the first version of Bartolini’s before they placed Bartolini on the pickups.

After that it is learning to see how they played to mimic the tone.

I will note that in the late 70’s it was common for players to take out the fender stock pickups and change them to dimarzio model P pickups. Freddie and paul Jackson went the Bartolini route.

Lastly how they recorded or what they played live with is another factor
 
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