The Career.

[DrayMiles]

I've had some nice crumbs of the table of success...

but a crumb ain't a meal..

Play smart, and nobody'll get hurt... especially your enthusiasm..

 

[Jim Campbell]

bassdroid is right. i've often felt that way myself. but once i got past 45, things started turning around for me, and i've somehow managed to reclaim the joy i had for doing it when i was 16. the money improving didn't hurt, and neither did marrying a gal i helped get through rn school and now she's a higher-up at her hospital

it reminds me of a quote from mark mothersbaugh of devo..."when you're in your 20's it's a great job. when you're in your 30's it's alright. but it kind of sucks when you're in your 40's." i certainly felt that, but what he left out is that once you hit 45 or 46, the pendulum starts swinging the other way. of course when he said it, he was in his 40's so he didn't know, but considering he's 61 now, devo just put out their first album in 20 years, and they're actively touring behind it and having great shows and having a great time, i think he feels it swinging, too.

it takes a few decades to realize that doing a job you enjoy has value,even if that value is not measured in dollars....

 

[JimmyM]

I've had some nice crumbs of the table of success...

but a crumb ain't a meal..

Play smart, and nobody'll get hurt... especially your enthusiasm..

look, anyone who gets into music with the idea that they're going to be rich and famous is fooling themselves. it happens for so few people that the odds of doing it are worse than winning the lotto. but you can make a decent to very good living at it if you market yourself well and conduct yourself professionally.

 

[okcrum]

look, anyone who gets into music with the idea that they're going to be rich and famous is fooling themselves. it happens for so few people that the odds of doing it are worse than winning the lotto. but you can make a decent to very good living at it if you market yourself well and conduct yourself professionally.

+1, and like you and others have said, there's nothing like doing something you really love.

 

[willgroove2]

I have about 20 years of gigging experience, the last 10 years or so with music being my sole source of income. When I set out on this path, I think I was pretty idealistic: I figured that as long as I kept a good attitude, was versatile, dependable, played well, and did what was expected of me, that the gigs would continue to come and I would survive.

I was right; they have and I am surviving...just barely. At 42, I'm in my 24th year of renting. I have never owned a home or a new car. I pay for my own health insurance and hope that it will be sufficient should something go wrong. My personal time is extremely limited due to all of the traveling I must do in order to keep the gigs coming and the bills paid. Sometimes (and sometimes quite often) I have to play music that I don't particularly care for and work with musicians who are either indifferent or sometimes downright unpleasant.

What I've laid out here is nothing new, I'm sure. But I'd like to add that these things really take their toll over the years. Looking back, I wish I'd trained for a different career and kept active in music as a secondary source of income. I may still take steps in this direction, but it is much harder to do this at 42 than it is at 18.

We are the same age,I am also a full time musician with several music related income streams(Gigging,teaching a few lesson,studio work,songwriting/music production) I own a house and have had a few new car's including the one I have now.I have had lean years and great ones and since I got married 5 years ago I will say my attitude has changed about that fact.My thing was from the beginning I approached music as a career while many others i worked with (and work with now)didn't. I try to add a skill set every year either getting into a new genre of music or learning who to bow a upright or like Jimmy said,working on my singing.I also live in a major market (Chicago)which helps a lot.I have to play gig's I don't want to play with people I don't want to play with but in the straight world people do that everyday for 30-49 yrs so the fact I mostly enjoy what I do put's me ahead of the game.

Everybody's experience is different,flexibility is key and being a musician is not for everybody

 

[JimmyM]

I try to add a skill set every year either getting into a new genre of music or learning who to bow a upright or like Jimmy said,working on my singing.I also live in a major market (Chicago)which helps a lot.I have to play gig's I don't want to play with people I don't want to play with but in the straight world people do that everyday for 30-49 yrs so the fact I mostly enjoy what I do put's me ahead of the game.

right. especially the part about gigs you don't want to play. i know a guy who plays bass in a polka band in about a 4 or 5 state area where they're the only polka band around. therefore they get every call and can sort of name their own price.

there's good money playing music that musicians hate

 

[ihs0y]

thanks guys for all your responses!

so uh, question. just for your opinions
do you believe that personality plays a part in a person to be a musician?

and bassdroid, is there in any way you would relate your situation to willgroove2's?
I understand that different people go through different experiences as nature takes its course, but i'm not very sure of this phrase since i have zero experience in working..
i'm actually only 17 this year, going to have to pick a college to go to real soon and i'm really not sure on which path to take..

 

[JimmyM]

most musicians i know do have a personality. not always a good one, but they have one.

 

[ihs0y]

most musicians i know do have a personality. not always a good one, but they have one.

how does talent play a part then?

there's a quote on this article, Invalid Link Removed

under the heading,
What’s The Alternative? What’s The Red Pill Approach?

"if you scratch the skin of somebody considered ‘really talented’ at their chosen discipline what you’ll find is that they’re not ‘talented’ because they were born with a gift that you or I don’t posess.

No, their talent is simply a function of hard work over time.

And scientific studies are being conducted that back this up – AND refute the myth that people are either born talented at something. Or they’re not."

 

[burk48237]

thanks guys for all your responses!

so uh, question. just for your opinions
do you believe that personality plays a part in a person to be a musician?

and bassdroid, is there in any way you would relate your situation to willgroove2's?
I understand that different people go through different experiences as nature takes its course, but i'm not very sure of this phrase since i have zero experience in working..
i'm actually only 17 this year, going to have to pick a college to go to real soon and i'm really not sure on which path to take..

You might consider a music related field like acoustics or electrical engineering, which can have great day jobs. From what I'm seeing in a semi-major market with some exceptional players is that the era of live bands gigging five- six nights a week is done. I'm seeing good live venues close every year and DJ's getting high-ticket high profile gigs that they would never get before. I've also noted that the going rate for a bass player $50-$150 a night for club gigs is the same it was in the 70's, do cars and clothes or basses for that matter cost the same they did in the 70's?

 

[willgroove2]

how does talent play a part then?

there's a quote on this article, Invalid Link Removed

under the heading,
What’s The Alternative? What’s The Red Pill Approach?

"if you scratch the skin of somebody considered ‘really talented’ at their chosen discipline what you’ll find is that they’re not ‘talented’ because they were born with a gift that you or I don’t posess.

No, their talent is simply a function of hard work over time.

And scientific studies are being conducted that back this up – AND refute the myth that people are either born talented at something. Or they’re not."

Talent play's a small part IMO but aptitude is much more of a factor,people who are self motivated will do better in the art's as a career.Also like I said before flexibility is a key most of us go into music as a career thinking it's going to go one way and it usually goes another,I have a friend who was playing gig's with jazz heavy weights in his late teen's and '20's who now happily plays with miley Cyrus. That's not what he thought he was going to be doing but it's what happened and he's doing well.Now there are people on TB who would tell you they would never do that gig and I can bet that not one of them play's music as their main source of income so it's easy to say what you won't do

 

[JimmyM]

i think you can be born with an affinity for a certain skill, but you're certainly not born with the skill set to do it. i know i certainly worked my ass off and took lessons and practiced for hours at a time in my formative years. and even though i discovered i had perfect pitch when i was 16, i would never have known it if i hadn't learned what the pitches were and how they relate to the other pitches. some people get it down quicker than others, but it takes work and a lot of it over time.

however, being extremely talented has never been mandatory for entry into the music business. and there are skills, like getting along with people and not complaining about every little thing, that are prized just as much in many circles.

 

[ihs0y]

You might consider a music related field like acoustics or electrical engineering, which can have great day jobs. From what I'm seeing in a semi-major market with some exceptional players is that the era of live bands gigging five- six nights a week is done. I'm seeing good live venues close every year and DJ's getting high-ticket high profile gigs that they would never get before. I've also noted that the going rate for a bass player $50-$150 a night for club gigs is the same it was in the 70's, do cars and clothes or basses for that matter cost the same they did in the 70's?

hi burk, i think i see where u're getting at..
i suppose it's the growing demand for DJ's instead of a live band?
how would u comment on teaching music then? maybe luthiery?
(i really can't think at the top of my head what the proper word for "luthiership" is! or might luthiery be just right? )

 

[BASSDROID]

I definitely agree that willgroove2's method of deriving income from various streams is both effective and can be very rewarding as well. And the point about personality is well taken. I realize that the main reason I'm in the position I'm in is because of who I am and the choices I made.

A bit of background: I obtained a BM in Jazz studies during the course which I met my wife who is a drummer. We gig together frequently in the Detroit/SE Michigan area and enjoy each others company and playing. Somewhere along the way though, I lost interest in composing and teaching (although I would say I'm effective at both). And while I don't limit myself to only playing a specific type of music or gig, the decision to ONLY do gigs has had rather obvious consequences. Now I am dealing with the rather uncomfortable realization that I am slowly loosing interest in gigging as well.

I have been trying to remedy this with things already mentioned: trying new concepts, different instruments, some composing and arranging, reconnecting with musicians I haven't seen or heard from in a while. This is all interesting and fun and I'll probably continue, but it is not leading (as far as I can tell) to a large scale resurrection of interest in working.

I guess the takeaway here is that diversification is a critical component to making a decent living in music. The guys and girls I know that are really making it work all subscribe to that theory. But it takes a certain kind of person to make that happen.

 

[ihs0y]

so bassdroid, in your experience of losing interests..
could there maybe have been a reason why? or could it have been prevented?
forgive me if i've understood you wrongly!

jimmy & willgroove, so i assume that versatility is key to market oneself in the music industry..
how would you say on the different demands of bassists in the society nowadays compared to back then?
i see performing live might be a starting issue from burk's comment but what about in terms of performing genre?

 

[BASSDROID]

so bassdroid, in your experience of losing interests..
could there maybe have been a reason why? or could it have been prevented?
forgive me if i've understood you wrongly!

Many reasons, but primarily because I'd had enough of the inherent frustrations that go along with these things. I'm reluctant to go into more detail - the thread may be hopelessly derailed. Not sure if this could have been prevented...I have a long history of being me

 

[ihs0y]

Many reasons, but primarily because I'd had enough of the inherent frustrations that go along with these things. I'm reluctant to go into more detail - the thread may be hopelessly derailed. Not sure if this could have been prevented...I have a long history of being me

ah, alright.. then what about in a more general view? there might be someone out there who might be going through a similar situation to yours, so maybe you can speak on behalf of them or advice those who are currently in the situation?

 

[KingRazor]

Great pay? On a cruise ship?

All the contracts I've heard about were in the $500 - $600 per week area which puts the salary well below the poverty line even discounting food and shelter.
I guess it's steady income and a better gig than playing trashy bars on the weekends though...
Did your friend get a nice raise each year? Maybe that would explain how he is getting decent pay.

That's more than double what I make.

 

[ihs0y]

That's more than double what I make.

what's your story like?

 

[KingRazor]

what's your story like?

I don't gig. Yet. I play with some friends some times and have a desk job currently.