The harsh reality and acceptance

[Son of Wobble]

We all wanna be spaghetti sauce. But we can't be.

It's a long way to the sauce if you want to rock and roll.

 

[Whousedtoplay]

This Is How Twitter Reacted When Kanye Declared Himself The Biggest Rock Star On The Planet.

"Go home mate, ya drunk!"

Just a short excerpt from a video.
It totally expresses my opinion about those "technical champions".

Just listen from 0:05 through 0:33.

 

[Son of Wobble]

This Is How Twitter Reacted When Kanye Declared Himself The Biggest Rock Star On The Planet.

"Go home mate, ya drunk!"

oh yeah? Let's see YOU with the bottle to get up at Glastonbury and pantomime a song you don't know the words
to in a key you couldn't possibly reach!

 

[Kmonk]

(("That WUTP always needs to say something negative" ))

I do not compare a musician to some kind of athlete - who COMPETES!!!, who seeks that Olympic Medal.

P.S. I think you got my message about my personal belief whether this or that musician is inducted into the Musicians Hall of Fame and put in the MUSEUM like a mummy.

As a musician, I do not compete with ANYBODY. I am who I am, I love what I love.
(Oh, yes, it's about "show me the money". I forgot about it - too old.)


Music is all about SUBTLETIES and NUANCES. I don't need some CHAMPIONS in my MUSIC if I see their insincerity.
I can't stand even a SUPERB musician if he/she cannot understand or purposely ignore a simple song's mood, character, attitude, etc...
If I see a/any bass player who selfishly wants to become a "pure athlete champion" while playing a song...

I think you missed my point. I wasn't comparing musicians to athletes in terms of competing. I was talking about the fact that to excel at either, you must work hard and practice. If all it takes is practice, even could be a great musician or a great athlete.

 

[Kmonk]

Really? You've never encountered any lazy people before? Lucky you.

I've encountered plenty of lazy people. My point was that even if people spend the amount of time practicing, it doesn't necessarily mean they will all be equally proficient. It takes natural ability as well.

I have a friend who started playing guitar at the same time that other friends of ours started playing. He practiced more than any of us and never became proficient enough to even play in a garage band. He obviously lacks natural ability. He did become a great sound engineer though.

 

[Son of Wobble]

I've always compared being a musician to being an athlete. Both take dedication and practice. They also require natural ability. If it was just a matter of practice, everyone could be a great musician or great athlete.

The truth inherent in your above statement seems to me so self-evident that I can't believe you're being obliged to defend it.

 

[Whousedtoplay]

I think you missed my point.

And I think you missed my point.

I was talking about the fact that to excel, ...you must work hard and practice.

100% agree.
Now we are listening to the same radio station.

 

[Son of Wobble]

It is over thirty years ago now, but I recall having a conversation with John Doe of X at the height of that band's fame, and he maintained that his group was in direct competition with Madonna, which I found ridiculous considering they were doing radically different things artistically. But John was adamant - Madge was indeed competition, for entertainment dollars, for record store shelf space and for airtime on then-essential MTV. It is a matter of perspective, I suppose.

 

[lz4005]

Just a short excerpt from a video.
It totally expresses my opinion about those "technical champions".

Just listen from 0:05 through 0:33.

Thing is Esbjorn Svenson was also a technical champion. And an amazing composer. He just happened to play with an incredible amount of feel and taste as well.

My jazz trio does a couple of EST songs. They're fun, and very challenging.

 

[Whousedtoplay]

He just happened to play with an incredible amount of feel and taste as well.

YEEEEES!

Feel, Taste, Mood, Character, Attitude, etc...
Here is a very simple (but kind of Bolero-ish) instrumental piece played by excellent jazz musicians.
The bass-line (double bass) is incredibly and repetitively simple but the composition just captures me, my imagination. I just love it.
It's so visual.

Here is a sheet music of that song from their - Tonbruket - web-site.
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In short.

That bass-line could play almost any beginner bass player.
Does it mean that Dan Berglund (from EST) - a classically educated jazz musician - has achieved nothing.

All other musicians are also educated and solidly pro.



P.S. I wish I could be so constrained, so laconic, but it's not given to me...

 

[Bass Man Dan]

I'm 41 years old. Any dreams of "doing this for a living" died a long, long time ago. I am not a "music store" bass player. Never will be. Can't run all over the fretboard or slap a bunch. I marvel at the talents of many, many different bass players. But I really enjoy playing 90s alternative rock. I can play it. I enjoy it. That's it. I'll keep learning all I can, but I agree with the OP, natural ability is what it is.

 

[Badwater]

As long as you know where you stand in this world, nobody can knock you down. Do the ZEN thing, and don't envy or worship. Learn from what they do OR, make what you have the best it can be. And separate yourself from the masses. David Gilmour was not the fastest or flashiest guitar player in the world, but look what he accomplished. Same can be said for Duck Dunn and James Jamerson.

 

[WhenTheDrumsStops]

After years of playing there's no doubt in my mind that natural ability plays a huge part in the level of playing you achieve. Yes we all know the old expression there's always someone better out there and it's very true. Despite the amount of time I'll never be able to calculate I can say with confidence I'm a decent player but will only get so far especially at this point in my life. I'm not taking a defeatist attitude. I suppose the point of this post is to convey the notion we should never get discouraged and be happy with what we've done with our playing. Enjoy the music and don't give up on your passion. I think this concept or reality escapes most naturals out there.

You don't have to be the best to be the best... if you know what I mean. You need to be yourself on the bass, your soul, your sound, your feel... and all that within your given limits. That makes someone a great player in my opinion, far more than the physical ability to play difficult stuff.

 

[jamro217]

And below all that are a bunch of the people I recently auditioned, "What the hell are you doing to that poor bass????"

Well, right you are! I was trying to keep it upbeat by not mentioning some of the steps below ground level, such as "One Adam Twelve, Disturbance On Main And Elm..." and <retching sound>.

 

[consectaneus]

A lot of what we like in bass players are how they function in the band. Many of them have adequate skills--skills within the reach of most people here. I was just reading about how David Crosby had very harsh words about the playing of Crazy Horse bassist Billy Talbot who admits to being a simple player. Yet he's perfect for that band.

I guess what I'm saying is that there will always be a Billy Sheehan or Stu Hamm type to make us feel inadequate. I consider someone like McCartney or Jaco musicians who happen to play bass, but their musicianship transcends the instrument they play. They are artists. A lot of us aren't, but with practice I think all of us can be pretty good.

 

[JimiLL]

I've been playing bass for more than two decades now.
-I can't slap properly
-I don't do tappings
-I don't play funky solos.
-When the rhythm is complicated, i sometimes get lost when the drums stop.
-When I visit a big music store, half of the teenagers there play stuff that I can not play.

I could continue this list until I get so depressed I lock up my basses for good.
But I don't need to fill stadiums. I don't give workshops for experienced musicians, either.

What I can do is drive a band in front of a thousand'ish people, with the dancefloor (or moshpit, depending on the music)
full of moving bodies.
I can sit in with a band without knowing what they will play and wing it, reading off the guitar player's chord sheets.
I can provide competent fundament for several styles of music, and it happened more than once that I was asked
to join a project because i was recommended to these people as someone who knew his stuff.
I was rejected only one time, and that time it was down to chemistry (I did not even play).
Whenever I take a look upwards, towards the Wootens, Baileys, Claypools and whatnots ... I also take a look down and realize that there is a very long way to go to become a second Jaco - but there is also a long way behind me, from the kid that just bought a bass and had a friend show him which finger goes where.
I'm good.

Amen

 

[JimiLL]

No matter what your goal, there is a ten year old out there training to knock you down.
I think we ought to stop feting these little buggers as "the future" and start battling them as "the competition."
A radical cut to school music programs would certainly cut them off at the knees.

Some people are way ahead ifvyou

 

[glocke1]

After years of playing there's no doubt in my mind that natural ability plays a huge part in the level of playing you achieve. Yes we all know the old expression there's always someone better out there and it's very true. Despite the amount of time I'll never be able to calculate I can say with confidence I'm a decent player but will only get so far especially at this point in my life. I'm not taking a defeatist attitude. I suppose the point of this post is to convey the notion we should never get discouraged and be happy with what we've done with our playing. Enjoy the music and don't give up on your passion. I think this concept or reality escapes most naturals out there.

I've had an on again, off again relationship with bass and music the past 35 years. Took various spans of time off for one reason or another. Sometimes these were life events such as college or job moves.

Other times they were the result of "You know what, I really suck compared to this guy", and the realization that no matter how much time and effort I put into something, I just wasn't getting it. Jazz is the perfect example here. I've taken lessons, I've taken ensemble classes, I've played in orchestras and ensembles, but it's just something I struggle with way too much for it to be any fun. I can fake it to a certain extent, but my brain just struggles too much with that kind of playing. Too much partying in my youth maybe, or maybe my Mom took meds while I was in the womb or something and left me slightly ********.

As a result I would beat myself up end up putting the bass down and not playing anymore because I felt any natural ability I had reached it's limits and no matter how much time/effort I put into it, I wasn't going to get any better.

I'm just coming off of one of those down cycles, and the lesson I've learned from it this time is to be appreciative of the ability I do have. No, I'll probably never be able to play through the more complex jazz charts that I'd like to be able to play through, but I've learned to be happy with what Im able to do with the instrument.

 

[Whitenoise17]

I don't care much for theory, technicality, or skill. I just play music and listen to music for the sheer feeling and experience of it. I'm not a good bass player in terms of skill, but that's okay, because true music has never been about skill, or doing fancy stuff to impress others. Music is about having fun. Music is about making yourself and others feel good.