Likewise I think that some people assume that playing with a firm touch indicates sloppyness or a lack of feel or technique. Being able to adopt an appropriate touch is a valuable skill and that's why good teachers bring it to the student's attention.Brad Johnson said:
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the light touch
- Thread starter Howard K
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I play an Fbass. THE higher end if you will, and I play it with high action. I can seem to get more range of fingerstyle tones without finger noise by the neck, neck pup, between both, and the bridge without noise. There does seem to be a BIG difference in punch and tone.
Take a rubber band for instance,,,, it always seems to sound punchier with more tension. It seems to lock in better with drums live and in the studio. Jamerson, John Paul Jones, Carol Kaye, and the dude from Rancid do high action and they always rock to me.
Low action is so much noisier with a medium touch, and letting the amp do the work always feels and sounds a bit more growly to me. I guess to each his own.
Take a rubber band for instance,,,, it always seems to sound punchier with more tension. It seems to lock in better with drums live and in the studio. Jamerson, John Paul Jones, Carol Kaye, and the dude from Rancid do high action and they always rock to me.
Low action is so much noisier with a medium touch, and letting the amp do the work always feels and sounds a bit more growly to me. I guess to each his own.
I recall many of Jeff Berlin's columns in Bass Player magazine in which he repeatedly preached the virtues of a) low action on bass, and b) turning up at the instrument and/or the amp. But then I gather he was speaking mainly to various young noobs, whose preferred playing style is to wear the bass at the knees, string it up extra high with those enormous bridge-cable gauge strings - then proceed to thrash the living daylights out of it...
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Righto Brad... I have changed action many times and ther are things I like about it low like the growl, tapping is easier, and slapping is easier. So for me I like it low for the flashy special stuff.
(Victor Wooten, Marcus Miller, Manring etc..) or growly like Zender and Jaco.
But then there is that other side of me that loves punch and absololutely no finger noise when playing by the neck with a medium touch. So I try to keep it high or medium. It just seems like I get way less left and right hand noise with it a bit higher action. My drummers always notice a big difference in the punch of the notes.
I guess if I had a ton of basses I'd keep some low and some high. I am sure my F's action is a sin to most here on TB.
So the real diff to me is TONE and FEEL which varies from cat to cat.
(Victor Wooten, Marcus Miller, Manring etc..) or growly like Zender and Jaco.
But then there is that other side of me that loves punch and absololutely no finger noise when playing by the neck with a medium touch. So I try to keep it high or medium. It just seems like I get way less left and right hand noise with it a bit higher action. My drummers always notice a big difference in the punch of the notes.
I guess if I had a ton of basses I'd keep some low and some high. I am sure my F's action is a sin to most here on TB.
So the real diff to me is TONE and FEEL which varies from cat to cat.
sethlow3 said:Righto Brad... I have changed action many times and ther are things I like about it low like the growl, tapping is easier, and slapping is easier. So for me I like it low for the flashy special stuff.
(Victor Wooten, Marcus Miller, Manring etc..) or growly like Zender and Jaco.
But then there is that other side of me that loves punch and absololutely no finger noise when playing by the neck with a medium touch. So I try to keep it high or medium. It just seems like I get way less left and right hand noise with it a bit higher action. My drummers always notice a big difference in the punch of the notes.
I guess if I had a ton of basses I'd keep some low and some high. I am sure my F's action is a sin to most here on TB.
So the real diff to me is TONE and FEEL which varies from cat to cat.
I keep my BN5 a little higher (than low) because on that particular bass, that's what I like... so I know what you mean.
OTOH on other basses I get the vibe I want, including massive punch, with low action
Here's my 2 cents:
From the beginning I played Double Bass as well as BG and often had to use both on the same gig. I found that in switching back and forth I benefited from having higher action, and just as importantly, higher tension on my BG. It seemed to make the transition a bit easier, although for some studio work I would lower my action a bit.
For Jazz work your quarter notes generally need to be strong and assertive. I think it is possible to achieve this with a relatively light touch, but it isn't always easy. For starters the bass is important, as is the set-up. In my opinion STRING TENSION is just as important here as string height. I recently saw a cat playing a F bass with an amazingly light touch and it was growling like a wildcat in heat!! Good pups set at the correct height, light string tension and low action, perfect neck relief, not to mention an amazing bass in the hands of an amazing player makes this possible. Is it possible to acheive this with a MIM Jazz bass? It really should be, but factoring-in the equipment variables and the player it's not a sure thing!
My advise to you as someone who is learning DB as well is to get your action up a bit and try it. Most players through the years will try a host of different things as they progress and grow and will often go back to what they were doing if and when they decide that it isn't working so you've got nothing to lose and everything to gain. In learning DB you will, or should, start to draw seperation between the two instruments in terms of your technique, mindset and approach as they are two very different instruments alltogether, very little besides the notes on the page relate to each other. You won't be using your fingertips to pluck the strings in many cases, you'll be using the side of your hand and the whole length of your fingers. The time it takes for the notes to sound is also quite different. No one can be sure if raising your action will help your cause buy if you've paid $$ to some good instructors to help you're cause then, IMO, you've got an obligation to yourself to try their advise, if you don't trust them then you've got the wrong instructors. Big changes can be hard, but you've got nothing to lose here.
From the beginning I played Double Bass as well as BG and often had to use both on the same gig. I found that in switching back and forth I benefited from having higher action, and just as importantly, higher tension on my BG. It seemed to make the transition a bit easier, although for some studio work I would lower my action a bit.
For Jazz work your quarter notes generally need to be strong and assertive. I think it is possible to achieve this with a relatively light touch, but it isn't always easy. For starters the bass is important, as is the set-up. In my opinion STRING TENSION is just as important here as string height. I recently saw a cat playing a F bass with an amazingly light touch and it was growling like a wildcat in heat!! Good pups set at the correct height, light string tension and low action, perfect neck relief, not to mention an amazing bass in the hands of an amazing player makes this possible. Is it possible to acheive this with a MIM Jazz bass? It really should be, but factoring-in the equipment variables and the player it's not a sure thing!
My advise to you as someone who is learning DB as well is to get your action up a bit and try it. Most players through the years will try a host of different things as they progress and grow and will often go back to what they were doing if and when they decide that it isn't working so you've got nothing to lose and everything to gain. In learning DB you will, or should, start to draw seperation between the two instruments in terms of your technique, mindset and approach as they are two very different instruments alltogether, very little besides the notes on the page relate to each other. You won't be using your fingertips to pluck the strings in many cases, you'll be using the side of your hand and the whole length of your fingers. The time it takes for the notes to sound is also quite different. No one can be sure if raising your action will help your cause buy if you've paid $$ to some good instructors to help you're cause then, IMO, you've got an obligation to yourself to try their advise, if you don't trust them then you've got the wrong instructors. Big changes can be hard, but you've got nothing to lose here.
As noted, it's a matter of preference. If you believe in your teacher then you should do what he tells you. There is no consensus among the pros. There seems to be an even split between light versus heavy.
Me, I play grooviest when I put some muscle into the string... I also prefer the tone of a stronger attack (but in the grand scheme of things I'd describe my touch as "medium"). YMMV.
Me, I play grooviest when I put some muscle into the string... I also prefer the tone of a stronger attack (but in the grand scheme of things I'd describe my touch as "medium"). YMMV.
i play with what some would call a light touch but i gained this light touch from playing with higher action and with gret intensity all my mentors have said to really dig in and play as hard as you can. wich is impossible to do 24/7 but you know when it feels right. i think gary willis really digs in in that vid its just economy of motion {look at his hand when he frets}
ever see yngwie play bass? harmonic minor runs in 32nd notes with vibrato to the moon and he looks like hes gonna fall asleep. dig in and play hard for so long and it start coming from somewhere else. as for action as low as you can go and still hear beautiful notes at all levels, pickup height is real factor in this also which sucks unless you use allen bolts to secure you pickups cuz the regular screws will surley strip ....on most basses ive owned anyways.
ever see yngwie play bass? harmonic minor runs in 32nd notes with vibrato to the moon and he looks like hes gonna fall asleep. dig in and play hard for so long and it start coming from somewhere else. as for action as low as you can go and still hear beautiful notes at all levels, pickup height is real factor in this also which sucks unless you use allen bolts to secure you pickups cuz the regular screws will surley strip ....on most basses ive owned anyways.
I'm a pretty heavy handed player but I suspect that's down to my inexperience and lack of subtlety. That being said, I love that heavy sound, like it's really you putting in the notes, not your equipment. I'm also more into funk/soul where the heavy hits seem to fit. Are there any jazz bass guitarists who use the heavier touch?
If you are playing traditional walking bass lines you will need to play with some thump on the strings, but not with a great deal of tension in your right hand. If you are playing pop and funk you might have to lighten up. My point is that a Jazz Bassist is going to get you to play with a little more authority than most other bassists. Still, you have to find the middle ground between playing with authority (Or assertiveness) and playing with tension.
I would say that it really depends on what you are trying to do. Its probably a good idea to keep two basses with different setups.
One thing is for sure. If you want to be able to play with authority you need to practice playing with a heavier hand. What I'm saying is, if you always practice with a very light touch and then when performing you find that you need to be more assertive you won't be able to do it. You need to practice playing strong to have it there for when you need it. Otherwise, your accuracy and sould will suffer. On stage isn't the place to try a new technique.
Chad
I would say that it really depends on what you are trying to do. Its probably a good idea to keep two basses with different setups.
One thing is for sure. If you want to be able to play with authority you need to practice playing with a heavier hand. What I'm saying is, if you always practice with a very light touch and then when performing you find that you need to be more assertive you won't be able to do it. You need to practice playing strong to have it there for when you need it. Otherwise, your accuracy and sould will suffer. On stage isn't the place to try a new technique.
Chad
