The magic behind awesome three-piece bands. How do they do it?

[lucas303]

The thing that makes them slam is timing. I was in a small time 3 piece mostly Zappa cover band for years and we killed. I’ve also seen this phenomenona while watching Janes Addiction rehearse. Of course, being an excellent player is a given.

I'd love to check out a trio doing Zappa covers. That's like a third the size of most of his bands!

 

[bfields]

overdubs

Yeah, even live they may have tracks or an extra keyboard player tucked away somewhere. They'll be careful to keep it in the background, so you probably won't notice until you really listen hard and try to identify all the parts, but often it's there.

 

[pbassnut]

I have often wondered how some bands can sound so 'full' with just 3 instruments playing live. Cream, Police, Muse come to mind and you will know more.
OK some acts cheat with hidden players and MIDI tracks, but barring that it seems like some kind of magic. How do they create this impression, this massive sound?

PS this is a serious question - no flippant answers please

I don't think there's any clear approach that makes "fullness" happen. Cream, who were the original power trio did it with a totally busy approach where all three played a whole lotta stuff. The Police ... kind of a mix where Sting and Andy Summers played in a solid, almost mimimalist fashion juxtaposed against Stewart Copeland's wall of drums. With Stevie Ray Vaughan and Double Trouble, the rhythm section supplied a steady and soulful backdrop to SRV's busy virtuoso guitar playing. The following clip was taken from Tony Joe White's early 80's Austin City Limits performance (which I have on DVD and love). Talk about bare bones ... little combo amps and mimimalist playing with lotsa "air" in the playing yet it sounds very full and lacks nothing, IMHO.

 

[nabilhuakbar]

I don't think there's any clear approach that makes "fullness" happen. Cream, who were the original power trio did it with totally busy approach where all three played a whole lotta stuff. The Police ... kind of a mix where Sting and Andy Summers played in a solid, almost mimimalist fashion juxtaposed against Stewart Copeland's wall of drums. With Stevie Ray Vaughan and Double Trouble, the rhythm section supplied a steady and soulful backdrop to SRV's busy virtuoso guitar playing. The following clip was taken from Tony Joe White's early 80's Austin City Limits performance (which I have on DVD and love). Talk about bare bones ... little combo amps and mimimalist playing with lotsa "air" in the playing yet it sounds very full and lacks nothing, IMHO.

Wow that's incredible. He really let his Strat do the talking there and that just sounded amazing.

 

[Joe Nerve]

There is an art to playing in a three-piece band that really can't be explained until you do it. I worked with great guitar players who couldn't play in a three-piece band to save their lives.

I agree completely and know some of those great guitar players that could never cut it in a 3 piece band .

 

[Yellow Bang66]

Twenty years ago I had a three piece instrumental band in which I played guitar. The Bass player had a Prog Rock background with great chops, and an innate sense of when to use them, and when to be economical. The drummer had a tendency to overplay, but I digress.

Mike (the Bassist) and I wrote just about everything together, and about a third of our songs had sparse guitar parts. (Think: Andy Summers of the Police.) A lot of the material was composed in the call and response structure, and it worked well for us.

When our musician friends came out to hear us play, (whether they cared for instrumental music or not) they comment we heard most often was how full we sounded for a 3 piece band.

It helps if you & the others know their roles and are aware of the surroundings where they fit in the sonic landscape, also decent gear is a good start, the last band 3 piece with singer ,every one was pretty self conscious of there role, only drummer was a dingus, which didnt matter all that much just annoying, I, bass was hyper aware of where i could fill & where to lay back.

 

[Slevage]

In addition to what everyone else has said, each player in a great sounding trio is most likely using closer to what we would call a 'bedroom' tone than the very narrow, sculpted tone you'd use in a 10 piece band.

When I've played in rock and jazz trios, I didn't have to worry about getting out of the way of a keyboard player's left hand, or the 2nd guitar player's mids and distortion. Most of the time you're actively trying to fill the sonic spectrum, instead of trying to not muddy it up like you do when there are more instruments.

Using Cream as an example, Jack Bruce's bass tone on their live albums is perfect for a rock trio. But if you tried to use that same tone on a Pink Floyd tour it would be garbage. Because it would step on the more dense arrangement of multiple guitars and organ and backup singers, etc.

I bellied up to a 5 foot stage with Jack Bruce 6 feet in front of me (2 different shows/years). His eq was an upside down
smiley through 16 Hartke aluminum cone 10’s. No bedroom tone there—- heavy mids.

 

[electracoyote]

Also the songs. You have to have songs that work with no extra pieces.

Charismatic vocals go a long way.

Yes, and yes. Some of these singers could have a hit singing the phone book, and some of these songs would be hits with tin cans and rubber bands.

Also, instrumentalists who can break outside their usual territory with compelling playing. When the rhythm guitar solos, the bass and drums may step it up a bit to cover. And if the rhythm guitar player can solo well, you almost don't notice the absence of rhythm guitar. Bass and drums can write signature parts that literally define the song.

It's a combination of busy and conservative playing, and knowing when it's time for which. Successful trio players have a heightened sense of awareness, timing, and good taste. A lot of successful trios are not made up of virtuosos, just competent and creative, smart musicians. You can bet that when they rehearse, they are really communicating about what they think is working, and what sounds thin, bad, or wrong, and making adjustments and corrections along the way. Some have one main arranger, and some depend on all three taking turns critiquing and arranging.

 

[Element Zero]

“Talent”

 

[Pdaddy1978]

Its a tricky question.....
On one hand you've got CREAM, where the great Jack Bruce was busy as hell, filling in with notes all over the place.
On the other hand youve got ZZ TOP, with Dusty Hill barely moving his left hand.
2 great trios with completely different approaches...both sound great.
The answer?
I dunno.

 

[fishdreams]

I love the format because in order to sound really good, everyone in the trio has to be aware of the other musicians equally, which as a bass player also allows for mixing it up with drums and guitar (or whatever) equally. lots of room to move in (which doesn't mean you have to take it all up).

For me a good trio is a testament of how good the musicians listen to each other. If they don't a trio falls flat. If they they do, it can be the best kick ever. Here's a recent session I'm on that just came out with some good moments, I think

 

[nabilhuakbar]

Yes, and yes. Some of these singers could have a hit singing the phone book, and some of these songs would be hits with tin cans and rubber bands.

Also, instrumentalists who can break outside their usual territory with compelling playing. When the rhythm guitar solos, the bass and drums may step it up a bit to cover. And if the rhythm guitar player can solo well, you almost don't notice the absence of rhythm guitar. Bass and drums can write signature parts that literally define the song.

It's a combination of busy and conservative playing, and knowing when it's time for which. Successful trio players have a heightened sense of awareness, timing, and good taste. A lot of successful trios are not made up of virtuosos, just competent and creative, smart musicians. You can bet that when they rehearse, they are really communicating about what they think is working, and what sounds thin, bad, or wrong, and making adjustments and corrections along the way. Some have one main arranger, and some depend on all three taking turns critiquing and arranging.

That's where your effects can really come in to save the day. Cranking on the fuzz and maybe an octaver while the guitar solos does a lot to fill in those sonic gaps.

Or you could be like TOOL and just have the bass guitar do most of the solos

 

[nabilhuakbar]

I love the format because in order to sound really good, everyone in the trio has to be aware of the other musicians equally, which as a bass player also allows for mixing it up with drums and guitar (or whatever) equally. lots of room to move in (which doesn't mean you have to take it all up).

For me a good trio is a testament of how good the musicians listen to each other. If they don't a trio falls flat. If they they do, it can be the best kick ever. Here's a recent session I'm on that just came out with some good moments, I think

I really like the trio feeling a lot more, for exactly why you said --- you need to have that kind of heightened awareness and lock into each other really tightly. You have to cover for each other more too. The limitations force you to be more creative and dynamic.

My old band invited a rhythm guitarist/vocalist in for a while. We kept him around for like...maybe two months, and then he got the boot.

 

[logdrum]

It can be a 2 piece and still be good

 

[chadds]

Though not guitar, bass and drums this trio of keys, bass and drums the first Soft Machine album!



In this form they opened for Hendrix. Later they became a larger jazz group.

There was The Nice that became ELP.

 

[Eli_Kyiv]

CCR comes to mind (after Tom's departure). Quite a simple music and arrangements, but how great the overall result was.

 

[zubrycky]

Lemmy's unconventional approach worked for Motörhead.

 

[31HZ]

Though not guitar, bass and drums this trio of keys, bass and drums the first Soft Machine album!



In this form they opened for Hendrix. Later they became a larger jazz group.

There was The Nice that became ELP.

So. Amazing.

Great album, start to finish.

 

[Ric5]

 

[Ricky Caboverde]

Sorry