Ok, maybe the Robert Horry thing was a little extreme, he is more talented a football player than Horry is a basketball player; but Tom Brady flourished under a system with a team built perfectly around that system. That team is leaving/getting traded, and things are not looking like they used to. Brady is undoubtedly the best big game quarterback, and he is the best quarterback for Bill B's sytem. He is not the best quarterback. He does have three rings, which is impressive, but take Adam Vinatteri out of the equation and he might have one ring.
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THE PATS ARE DONE!
- Thread starter Kibuddy
- Start date
I gotta chime in here:
I believed the Pats would make the SB they did'nt the Colts did go for them i like them too.
But after watching the Pats in SD and then yesterday i've got to agree with the the perception that Belicheck is a jerk.
And Brady just ran off , knowing Peyton was gonna be looking for him, that was classless.
I'm out
I believed the Pats would make the SB they did'nt the Colts did go for them i like them too.
But after watching the Pats in SD and then yesterday i've got to agree with the the perception that Belicheck is a jerk.
And Brady just ran off , knowing Peyton was gonna be looking for him, that was classless.
I'm out
I am a little surprised at the hate for the Patriots. And, yes, Bill Belichek is not an especially nice man.
However,
Is it a bad thing that they have won 3 Super Bowls since February 2002?
Is it a bad thing that after an early exit last year, they defeated the team with the best record in the NFL and made it back to the Conference Finals in a rebuilding year?
Is it a bad thing that they occasionally say "no, thanks" to good players who demand too much money?
Don't get me wrong - as a Red Sox fan, I understand frustration and I know how the fans of the Bears and Colts feel after not even playing in a Super Bowl in 21 and 36 years respectively. Be happy, be proud of your team - but no need to kick the Pats when they are down.
I am also worried that good, smart people have bought into the idea that behavior in the immediate moments following a hardfought victory or loss should be the sole criteria for judging the level of class that a team or an individual has.
Let me suggest some additional criteria
Number of players facing gun charges
Whether Super Bowl parade plans are made after winning the Super Bowl or prior to playing first playoff game
Number of players suspended for steriods
Number of players performing TD or sack dances
Number of players performing TD or sack dances prior to scoring a TD or sacking a QB
However,
Is it a bad thing that they have won 3 Super Bowls since February 2002?
Is it a bad thing that after an early exit last year, they defeated the team with the best record in the NFL and made it back to the Conference Finals in a rebuilding year?
Is it a bad thing that they occasionally say "no, thanks" to good players who demand too much money?
Don't get me wrong - as a Red Sox fan, I understand frustration and I know how the fans of the Bears and Colts feel after not even playing in a Super Bowl in 21 and 36 years respectively. Be happy, be proud of your team - but no need to kick the Pats when they are down.
I am also worried that good, smart people have bought into the idea that behavior in the immediate moments following a hardfought victory or loss should be the sole criteria for judging the level of class that a team or an individual has.
Let me suggest some additional criteria
Number of players facing gun charges
Whether Super Bowl parade plans are made after winning the Super Bowl or prior to playing first playoff game
Number of players suspended for steriods
Number of players performing TD or sack dances
Number of players performing TD or sack dances prior to scoring a TD or sacking a QB
Frontrunners are welcome on this bandwagon, but Kelly and I know who has been with this team for at least two years on TB (Kelly has been a Colts fan longer than I've been alive).
Just saying.
Is that a mug shot on your avatar?
That is just a headshot of Reche Caldwell, the receiver that helped us the most, barring Dallas Clark.
I like them as a team on field , but the coach really comes off as a jerk and he's not even funny like Parcells was.
I don't see how Belicheck's being a jerk has anything to do with his or his team's coaching or playing ability. I'd be glad to tell you that he's an ass, but he's also a great coach and that's why we like and respect him around here.
I do not believe that kindness is an important virtue in a good NFL coach. One may argue that players should be kind, classy, whatever to be good "role models" for young children, but what child seriously looks up to Dungy or Lovie Smith and says "Wow they're such nice coaches; I hope to be that nice when I grow up."
If you ask me, asking for a kind football coach is like asking for a smart prostitute. It may be nice at first, but in the end, what does it really matter?
-Alex
I do not believe that kindness is an important virtue in a good NFL coach. One may argue that players should be kind, classy, whatever to be good "role models" for young children, but what child seriously looks up to Dungy or Lovie Smith and says "Wow they're such nice coaches; I hope to be that nice when I grow up."
If you ask me, asking for a kind football coach is like asking for a smart prostitute. It may be nice at first, but in the end, what does it really matter?
-Alex
Being great is not all about winning... Someone being very good is great for the game, however same person being a complete jerk damages the game as well.
Your believes are WRONG.
It does.
-Serg
I agree wholeheartedly... but then again some sportsmanship would be good too, it is a game after all besides being big business.
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The heart of the matter, in the case of the Pats and Bolts. What's the Golden Rule again?
That's understandable.
kserg,
How does his being a jerk ruin the game? The instances of Belicheck's jerkiness here seem to be his fashion sense, the incident with the cameraman, and his bad mood. Although you might find these things interesting, I personally (you don't have to agree with me...duh) don't think they are even on the same page as the equation that makes up a good NFL coach.
Were Mike Ditka or Bill Parcell nice guys? No! But what they were were great leaders who had charisma, a passion for the game, and an intelligent football mindset that propeled them to the top of their game.
I don't care who agrees with me or anything...I'm sad to see my Pats go, but while this thread's here, we might as well talk about something.
Discuss!
-Alex
I can see they have thier priorities straight in Mississippi's reading comprehension curriculum.
(No offense, of course)
-Alex
p.s. Your avatar is funny....I belong to a group on www.facebook.com called "Reche Caldwell lost it for the Pats", which was started about three minutes after the game ended. The group uses the same picture as your avatar. I don't like blaming losses on one specific player, so I think "Reche Caldwell won it for the Colts" would be more appropriate.
- Mar 1, 2005
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In my opinion, the way a person handles themself in a moment like this is one of the most telling signs of what the individual truly stands for. A true sportsman should be gracious in defeat, and should also be able to enjoy victory without disrespect for their competitor.
Many years ago, my HS band was a consistent winner at the local, regional, and state level. Our director demanded that we handled ourselves with class, and that we respected our competitors. When we won, we had absolutely no public celebration in front of our competitors, those moments were enjoyed amongst ourselves, after the competitors were gone. When we lost (which fortunately was rare), we graciously and sincerely congratulated our competitors, and saved any negativities for later, amongst ourselves. While this may all sound a little extreme, especially in contrast with the atmosphere surrounding pro sports today, I believe that valuable lessons were learned, and strong values were instilled in us as individuals. Very often, when we happen to get together with old friends and talk about how things were "back in the day", we recall how proud we were not only of our victories, but how we handled ourselves publicly, be it in victory or defeat.
Alex,
I didn't say anything about Belicheck, i was talking in general about jerks in sports. I don't know about Belicheck enough to say one way or another but i did respond to your comments about people being jerks in general. If Belicheck is truly "bad" then yes, i think he is bad for the game and no matter how much he accomplishes, he will remain bad for the game. For instance, TO, guy is pretty good WR, however you can't possible think that he is good for the game as guy is a jerk. The same goes for Berry Bonds, guy was a good player, but he was an a$$hole and there for bad for the game. No matter what they accomplishes, they will not be good for the game, ever. As for Belicheck, i don't know if he is a jerk or not. We all have our moments where we display some of our ugliness.
Were they nice? Maybe not... Were they jerks/a$$holes/bad? I don't think so. If you are not a nice guy, it doesn't necessarily make you "bad"..
And you shouldn't, disagreement is normal and should exist, life would be boring if we agreed on everything.
-Serg
You are quite good at dividing up posts, Serg.
And your points are well taken.
Anyone got any other Patriots discussion? how about Asante Samuel? No matter whom he signs with next year, they will be lucky! (I hope it's the Pats)
-Alex
And your points are well taken.
Anyone got any other Patriots discussion? how about Asante Samuel? No matter whom he signs with next year, they will be lucky! (I hope it's the Pats)
-Alex
You should be proud of your band and the behavior of you and your band mates.
We'll have to agree to disagree about behavior in the moments after a heart-wrentching professional game is a particularly telling sign of character and values. If you have any question whatsoever of Tom Brady's character, you should read Charlie Pierce's book "Moving the Chains."
Is it me or was there all this huggy stuff in the NFL back in the day?
If someone feels like dancing after a victory or heading to the locker room after a defeat rather than accept condolences from the winner, then I say let them. That strikes me as a pretty authentic expression of what they were feeling.
Here's a topic for discussion:
The winners looking for the losers to offer their condolesences -
Gracious sportsmanlike gesture or disrespect in a socially acceptable form?
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I have no problem with Brady whatsoever, it's Belicheck that I dislike. I'm not familiar with the book, but I think I would like to find a copy. Thanks for the suggestion.
Regarding winners seeking losers, as long as the approach is SINCERE, I see no problem. If it's an excuse to rub it in, then I think we can both agree who the REAL loser is. Along similar lines, what really gets my respect is the loser that is big enough to seek out the winner for sincere congratulations!
Thanks for some thoughtful posting!
