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The room is everything

As the OP I’d just like to defend myself a little about all the “my sound” stuff. I’m not going for some crazy sculpted sound. I run pretty much flat. I was just talking about trying to get back to that reasonably flat sound in a difficult room. I have also worked as a sound engineer a lot in the past so I’m very aware of those difficulties too.
The engineer has more tools than me to correct those problems though (graphic eq , hpf.....)I’ve got low mid high .
Tbh I think a lot of pro level sound guys fail with the low end at big shows. It’s difficult to get low end definition in a lot of rooms.
Anyway, I think there’s been a lot of valuable stuff mentioned in this thread. Particularly for me thinking about moving the placement of my amp.
Thanks for all the input
 
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Been talking to an orchestral string player recently. We went to college together and she is an accomplished violinist.

We’ve been trading stories about auditions and gigs and just how similar the music biz is everywhere.

One thing she said stuck with me after I talked about a recent outdoor gig.
She said ‘I am amazed at how much gear you have to play with(adjust) to get your tone’. Never thought of it that way but yeah, adjusting to a room is necessary.
 
The EAR Box doesn't have any attenuator... you "adjust" the volume by changing distance from your ear...

This is the where I have a bit of an issue, as varying volume with distance totally ignores the importance of phase. Of course if the Ear Box is close enough to your ears that it becomes the dominant sound source, then phase is no longer an issue. I ran the HotSpots slightly higher than waist level and they tilt up to aim at the ears. My intent was for the sound from the HotSpots to integrate seemlessly with the sound coming from the D210XLT behind me so maintaining the proper distance was critical. I could control their level with either the rack mixer or using their built in attenuator. I suspect the overall sound of the Ear Box is better since it costs 3x what the HotSpots cost, but I do like the attenuator and tilt of the HotSpots. Also the nominal impedance of the HotSpots is 16 ohms, so probably best to drive them with a separate amp like I did.
 
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Trying being the sounds guy in one of those rooms....talk about a maddening/humbling experience!

On the other hand, as musicians I would hope that at some point its less about "my sound" and more about the band sounding good....after all that's what the (paying) folks are after, and those are the same folks that enable us to do this this thing called live music. Unless you're a solo performer, ensuring that audience has the best experience ought to be the #1 goal, whether every player gets to experience their perfect utopia of sound within their space is ancillary. IMO of course :)

I have done both jobs, separately and simultaneously. The most maddening thing for me was when I was running sound and playing bass simultaneously and the only thing the band members seemed to care about was hurrying up so they could have a longer break.

When I am just playing bass, I only worry about getting a clear, articulate sound from my amp. I give the audio tech a flat DI taken straight off my bass and don't worry about it. When I am running sound, as long as the mics and speakers are all plugged in properly, I am happy to use the first set for sound check if that's what the band wants. When I am playing and running audio at the same time, I need at least 30-45 minutes to dial the system in, and then another 10-15 minutes with an empty stage so I can ring the system for feedback.
 
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I've worked in audio and video production for more than 40 years. Every room is different, but that falls in the category of "it is what it is." Of course the acoustics differ, but that's part of your job to accommodate.

You take a look around, check the acoustics, and then you deal with it. Not a big deal, just part of having a professional attitude. Whether you consider yourself to be a professional musician or not (I'm not), we can all bring a professional attitude and make it work.
 
I had trouble in a new rehearsal space recently. My cab was on the floor at the time and the low end was out of control in the room. For next week when I’m there again I’ve got amp stand to get the amp up and tilt it toward me. I’ll also roll the lows back like you guys suggested. That’s definitely the problem.
Put your cab on its back pointed at the roof, pref elevated on a milk crate. Turns practice room mush to magic.

I always carry a HPF. Essential piece of equipment IME.
 
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As the OP I’d just like to defend myself a little about all the “my sound” stuff. I’m not going for some crazy sculpted sound. I run pretty much flat. I was just talking about trying to get back to that reasonably flat sound in a difficult room. I have also worked as a sound engineer a lot in the past so I’m very aware of those difficulties too.
The engineer has more tools than me to correct those problems though (graphic eq , hpf.....)I’ve got low mid high .
Tbh I think a lot of pro level sound guys fail with the low end at big shows. It’s difficult to get low end definition in a lot of rooms.
Anyway, I think there’s been a lot of valuable stuff mentioned in this thread. Particularly for me thinking about moving the placement of my amp.
Thanks for all the input

Perhaps some experiments are in order. I have a Boss DD7 that can be used as a looper. It's fun to lay down a bass line and a few guitar chords, and then jam out. Another thing that is kind of cool is to experiment with frequency slotting to try and get the different instruments to sound better in the mix.

So if you have a looper or DAW, I would suggest dialing in your bass sound to be perfect and then creating a loop and mix with bass and some other instrument(s) and seeing how you need to re-EQ your perfect sound, and the sound of the other instruments, so everything sits better in the mix. Now to further complicate matters, keep in mind that the idea of perfect sound is entirely subjective and we interpret sound differently when we are playing versus when we are mixing.

My idea of perfect sound (as a player) shifts continuously, even if I am just noodling alone. I'll plug in one of my amps and love the sound. Often I come back a few hours later and find that I want a subtle change. This is partly because my focus shifts to different parts of the frequency spectrum. Another reason I might want a different sound is because I might be playing a different type of bass line or a different style of music.

I have always loved fiddling and getting new sounds, but when it comes time for the gig, I just try to get clear and even tone across the range of the instrument. Often the acoustics are so bad, that it's essentially impossible to really achieve a specific tone and, IMHO, it only leads to endless frustration if perfect sound is your focus.

IMHO, as a player, you should monitor with whatever sound you prefer. Spend a few minutes dialing it in but dont' stress on it. As an audio tech you should take each player's sound and process it as best as you can so it sits well in the mix. Of course crappy acoustics and the general nature of audio bouncing around in a big hall work against a nice bass sound, but I think most audio techs do aspire to do the best job possible.

As an audio tech I typically make adjustments continuously throughout the show. IMHO the biggest problem is typically the players want so much bass in the bass amp and monitors that I can't run the subs and mains loud enough to get over the stage wash. Most bands get louder as the gig progresses.
 
The engineer has more tools than me to correct those problems though (graphic eq , hpf.....)I’ve got low mid high .
We have pedal format graphic eqs, compressors, hpf, hpf/LPF and more available now for reasonable prices. Sound engineers got nothing on us!

Check out the Effects Forum. Also the link in my sig. below.

My HPF, along with my active 3 band eq on my bass, I can beat any rig into submission to get the tone I need to sit well in the mix, whatever the venue. :thumbsup::bassist::hyper:

And still, the tone controls on the amp are still operational for additional adjustments.
 
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IMHO the biggest problem is typically the players want so much bass in the bass amp and monitors that I can't run the subs and mains loud enough to get over the stage wash. Most bands get louder as the gig progresses.

That's part of the problem. The other part of the problem (or a different angle to look at it) is the approach by some sound technicians pushing for having complete control over all sounds in the room, i.e. having everything put in FOH. There will always be stage wash in small rooms and the technicians need to get used to working with it. The approach which I like is to start the soundcheck in small rooms by actually playing a song or two for the sound tech without FOH. Than he can come and say "I need to plug this and that to the mixer, the rest is fine". The opposite approach under which all instruments are being sent to FOH by default adds to the trouble in small rooms, IMHO.

I know that experience comes with time and repetition. Experienced sound tech will know upfront that some instruments will need to go through FOH anyway (vocals, kick drum). That's not what I am talking here...
 
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The room is everything

It's like our cabs are in another big cab that screws with your tone and the mix.
Sometimes you have to be extreme with the eq, HPF, notch filters, sweepable mids, etc.


Sitting in the mix well is a challenge most of the time.
 
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I think the problem you have (and most bass players have, for that matter) is that you are married to "my sound".

That simply shouldn't be the case.

You should be able to play with whatever sound fits the room. Parametric EQ and (I'm sure @Stumbo beat me to it) and HPF can quickly help you dial up what is needed for that room.

Dial it up and play the show. Don't spend all night worrying about whether or nit it's "your sound".

All of your gear has knobs for a reason. ;)
 
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I think the problem you have (and most bass players have, for that matter) is that you are married to "my sound".

That simply shouldn't be the case.

You should be able to play with whatever sound fits the room. Parametric EQ and (I'm sure @Stumbo beat me to it) and HPF can quickly help you dial up what is needed for that room.

Dial it up and play the show. Don't spend all night worrying about whether or nit it's "your sound".

All of your gear has knobs for a reason. ;)

I concur. It echoes a recent discussion which I had in different thread: whether to use the amp's EQ to either: 1. get "my sound", or 2. adjust the sound to acoustics of the stage/room. My approach is the latter.
 
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I think the problem you have (and most bass players have, for that matter) is that you are married to "my sound".

That simply shouldn't be the case.

You should be able to play with whatever sound fits the room. Parametric EQ and (I'm sure @Stumbo beat me to it) and HPF can quickly help you dial up what is needed for that room.

Dial it up and play the show. Don't spend all night worrying about whether or nit it's "your sound".

All of your gear has knobs for a reason. ;)
Hey, I resemble that! :cautious:
 
This is the where I have a bit of an issue, as varying volume with distance totally ignores the importance of phase. Of course if the Ear Box is close enough to your ears that it becomes the dominant sound source, then phase is no longer an issue.


So long as the Ear Box (or equivalent) has the same polarity as every other speaker in the rig, and is pointed in the same direction, that's the best you can hope for.

The speed of sound changes depending on the medium (gas / liquid / solid), and temperature, but not on the frequency of the sound : otherwise the FOH engineer would be having a devil of a job, way out front in the mix position.
 

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